CanPol: Conservative Platform

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by notyoueither
What I have a problem with is the fund being picked when the feds need a few dollars for programs other than what the legislation was passed for.

Yeah, same thing with the CPP. If they're going to do that then lets just roll everything together and pay one income tax.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Yeah, competition can actually improve coverage, and services, rather than destroying the system. The same is true that there are benefits to having the government manage certain portions of health care, such as what will be covered, and what will not.

What about limitations to access? Medicare was never really intended to apply to everyone, but just those who had no other means.

On the one hand, why should the public pay for the health care of a billionaire? Why shouldn't his $500 dollar per month plan pick up the tab for his care?

On the other, how well funded would the program be if none of the rich or middle class needed it (ie the people who vote)?

There are good points on both sides. Like the old FST, I think we should look at systems elsewhere that work. Like we did with the FST when we copied NZ with the GST.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I have no problem with it. BTW, I have to pay in matching funds plus for every dollar an employee is deducted.

All the taxes like that should be cancelled. It basically penalises employer for hiring people.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Yeah, same thing with the CPP. If they're going to do that then lets just roll everything together and pay one income tax.

NOOOOO! Noo, no, no.

Less disappearance of vast sums of money into the oblivion of nameless programs administered by bureaucrats 'at large'.

You make a sucky conservative.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai


All the taxes like that should be cancelled. It basically penalises employer for hiring people.

Now your listening to capitalist propaganda!

If I need someone to do a job, I will hire them. The only things to worry about are can I compete with employers who do not have the same burden (exports) and can my business be profitable so that I can continue to employ people.

The first concern is very important in manufacturing and somewhat in resource extraction. The second is very important for entry level jobs in less viable companies and for service sector jobs (first jobs, or McJobs if you will). So don't go jacking the rate!

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by notyoueither
NOOOOO! Noo, no, no.

Less disappearance of vast sums of money into the oblivion of nameless programs administered by bureaucrats 'at large'.

You make a sucky conservative.

Thanks for the compliment.

I don't buy that argument. It's same approach that was taken with the GST - if we hide the tax then the evil politicians can secretly raise it. I want a simpler life. I hate going back to Canada and trying to figure out what 7% of $10.49 is. Just tell me how much it is going to cost.

Same thing with income taxes. They tax us and then they give us tax deductions that create a massively confusing tax form. I say get rid of all the deduction and lower the tax rate. We'd all probably end up paying the same tax, but we would be able to fill out the tax form in 10 minutes.

[Ben Kenobi]

Same thing with income taxes. They tax us and then they give us tax deductions that create a massively confusing tax form. I say get rid of all the deduction and lower the tax rate. We'd all probably end up paying the same tax, but we would be able to fill out the tax form in 10 minutes..

Why not just have a flat tax?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Thanks for the compliment.

I don't buy that argument. It's same approach that was taken with the GST - if we hide the tax then the evil politicians can secretly raise it. I want a simpler life. I hate going back to Canada and trying to figure out what 7% of $10.49 is. Just tell me how much it is going to cost.

Same thing with income taxes. They tax us and then they give us tax deductions that create a massively confusing tax form. I say get rid of all the deduction and lower the tax rate. We'd all probably end up paying the same tax, but we would be able to fill out the tax form in 10 minutes.

Ahhh, the GST comes up again. There are two good things about the GST. Three actually.

1. It has been a needed source of federal revenue since the 19th century. That's correct. The FST was among the Feds first sources of revenue, and the GST replaced it. Now, you could say why have any of it? Good question, and 2 and 3 will get into that. However, there was nothing new about an excise tax when the GST was brought in to replace the FST. Most Canadians are oblivious to that because...

2. The FST was hidden. Nobody knew it was there, except direct manufacturers and processors. So, the cost of government was hidden from the voters by means of a tax that ranged from 9 to 13 or 15% depending on the product. Hidden costs of government are not so good. The BEST thing about the GST is that the costs of government are in your face every time you buy so much as a nickle's worth of rock candy. That leads to better government, IMO, because even the brain dead non-voter sees the cost of government in a way he or she never sees on paychecks because they ignore the stub with deductions all too often.

3. Exports. The FST taxed many exports and many imports were not. In a word, it was a job killer that was only practical with tarrifs in place. When we decided to go for trade, that tax had to go. Now exports are not taxed, but imports are. As it should be. We tax what is consumed in Canada, and not the business that employs Canadians to provide gizmos to foreign markets.

So, I like the GST.

Flat income tax with no dodges? Are you a closet admirer of Mr. Klein? I agree, simpler income taxes that ensure that people with $250 per hour accountants actually pay some tax, and that a normal human being could do themselves without injury would be good.

[Ben Kenobi]

One other thing with lower taxes, is that you will see better participation. More people will pay their share.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by notyoueither

Flat income tax with no dodges? Are you a closet admirer of Mr. Klein? I agree, simpler income taxes that ensure that people with $250 per hour accountants actually pay some tax, and that a normal human being could do themselves without injury would be good.

Klein is stealing his ideas from Hong Kong.

Here we have a simple system, no sales tax, no gst. The first Cdn$18,000 is tax free. Top tax rate is 15% for individuals, 16% for businesses. Deductions are minimal, although the new dictators are adding more and more every year and they're talking about a sales tax.

The hidden tax argument is flawed. If the GSt is included in the advertised price, that doesn't mean no one would notice it. A lot of provinces allow the sales tax to be included in the advertised price and we know how much we pay.

Besides, we could just have a rule where the GSt has to be listed on the receipt, but a GST-included price could be advertised.

Also, gas taxes are included in the price, but that doesn't mean politicians get a free ticket to increase the price whenever they want.

If a party wants to get votes, they should be talking about how to make voters' lives easier. Allowing a gst-included price is one way to do it.

[notyoueither]

They do allow a GST included price. By law each business must pick one way or the other. Either all prices include tax, or all prices plus tax.

It just so happens that nobody advertises with anything but the lowest price possible, so everyone is plus tax (practically).

[Ben Kenobi]

Hong Kong is a model for capitalist enterprise.

Are you sure socialist Canada would be ready for these radical ideas?

[notyoueither]

It's that 'plus' tax where the voters see it, and where I see the value, aside from lower overall taxes for people involved in exports and thus being more competitive.

[Agathon]

Who cares? The Liberals always win.

[notyoueither]

More accurate would be the NDP never wins.