Tweet
Oh, and please, don't expect to see condemnation of it in the muslim world, at least not any widespread one.
-
Bastards, if they ever get these guys in that Baghdad prison I won't complain one bit if they're tortured before being sent to their 72 virgins. How about castration as a going away present?Comment
-
maybe theyre alredy thinking we beat their prisoners.Originally posted by Spiffor
Barbarians
These guys make the guillotine look like the epitome of civilization
About this thread, I have found Striker's remark about the lack of Arab outrage interesting. I have looked on several news source, and they don't detail the outrage at all, in any country including the US. I suppose the news is too young (especially in the ME where it's morning now) for an outrage to be measured.
I really wonder what the outrage will look like in the Arab world.:-pComment
-
The photos of the victim's family were heart-wrenching ..."I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire
"Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — ConfuciusComment
-
Interesting point though, we tend to dismiss atrocities committed by our side and demonise atrocities committed by the other side. That's why Indian savages massacred whites and whites defeated Indians in battles that were in fact massacres. That's the basis for racism too... A white guy murders a white or black person and no white person thinks white people are bad because of that crime, but if a black man murders a white person, then that's evidence for indicting black people (change the colors around, no difference).
Ever hear US politicians commenting on, no, defending support for Saddam during the Iran-Iraq War by claiming we didn't want either side to win? How would that make you feel as an Arab? Here were US politicians claiming they supported Saddam to effectively prolong a bloody war that took the lives of a ~million Arabs and maimed many more. But so many people here apparently don't understand how immoral that is and why so many Arabs hate our guts because of BS like that.
Nothing can justify murdering the innocent, NOTHING! No religion, no ideology, and no mob...
"Us & Them" - got the lyrics Slow?Comment
-
These a-holes didn't need any abuse of Iraqi prisoners as a motive for this, they did the same thing to Daniel Pearl. Invading Iraq was a mistake, we should have poured all that firepower into Afghanistan to make sure we got them there instead of creating another breeding ground for these vermin.Comment
-
Excellent post, Berzerker.
EDIT: Both of them.
Comment
-
Thx, whoever you were in a previous poly incarnation
Comment
-
Incidentally:
Michael Berg lashed out at the U.S. military and Bush administration, saying his son might still be alive had he not been detained by U.S. officials in Iraq without being charged and without access to a lawyer.
Nick Berg, a small telecommunications business owner, spoke to his parents on March 24 and told them he would return home on March 30. But Berg was detained by Iraqi police at a checkpoint in Mosul on March 24. He was turned over to U.S. officials and detained for 13 days.
His father, Michael, said his son wasn't allowed to make phone calls or contact a lawyer.
FBI agents visited Berg's parents in West Chester on March 31 and told the family they were trying to confirm their son's identity. On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military. The next day Berg was released. He told his parents he hadn't been mistreated.
Michael Berg said he blamed the U.S. government for creating circumstances that led to his son's death. He said if his son hadn't been detained for so long, he might have been able to leave the country before the violence worsened."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
-
Just an unfortunate coincidence of bad timing, that's like saying you would have avoided that accident had you only overslept by 5 minutes. Understandable for the father to look at it with 20/20 hindsight, but unless US officials detained the guy and dropped him off in a bad neighborhood, they can't be blamed.Comment
-
That he didn't have access to a lawyer or a phone call was more than a problem of bad timing. That we arbitrary detain Iraqis (arguably just as damaging to us as prison torture) without access to lawyers, their families, or independent review is part of the reason why folks like Zarqawi have as much power as they do."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
-
But his capture by these a-holes was bad timing.Comment
-
Certainly... I'm just pointing out some serious flaws in the "justice" system we're running over there, and that they have negative reprecussions for just about everything including Iraqi goodwill."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
-
Originally posted by Berzerker
Interesting point though, we tend to dismiss atrocities committed by our side and demonise atrocities committed by the other side. That's why Indian savages massacred whites and whites defeated Indians in battles that were in fact massacres. That's the basis for racism too... A white guy murders a white or black person and no white person thinks white people are bad because of that crime, but if a black man murders a white person, then that's evidence for indicting black people (change the colors around, no difference).
Ever hear US politicians commenting on, no, defending support for Saddam during the Iran-Iraq War by claiming we didn't want either side to win? How would that make you feel as an Arab? Here were US politicians claiming they supported Saddam to effectively prolong a bloody war that took the lives of a ~million Arabs and maimed many more. But so many people here apparently don't understand how immoral that is and why so many Arabs hate our guts because of BS like that.
Nothing can justify murdering the innocent, NOTHING! No religion, no ideology, and no mob...
"Us & Them" - got the lyrics Slow?
Comment
-
The main reason there will be no outrage in the Arab world is their whole concept of honour, vengeance and blood debt. The tribal structure of many of the arab countries means certain practises that stopped existing in Europe with the decline of the feudal system are still relatively common place and more easily accepted.
Certain of the practises done in the Abu Graib prison were designed to humiliate arab men to the maximum (women present when they were naked, homosexual activities etc), which is probably less acceptable in the Arab world than decapitation.
The decapitation is designed to get maximum revulsion points from the West, and it looks like they succeeded again (just as with Daniel Pearle, the Norwegians in Kashmir etc).
I am just not sure if western cultural values and arab islamic values will ever be compatible, at least in the foreseeable future.
At some times my initial gut instinct says that maybe the rules of engagement should change, as the whole tribal structure can be intimidated. I think of how WWII german forces tried to surpress any resistance by wiping villages of the face of the earth, deporting the families of those involved to the death camps and that sort of thing. But we should not descend to that level.Comment
Comment