Heterosexuality and the heterosexual lifestyle.

[MrFun]

What does "pursuit of happiness" mean?

[Ben Kenobi]

You completely ignored my entire post on how your concepts are reductionist.

How in any way have you 'refuted' my 'fallacies'?

[MrFun]

I was not the one obsessively focusing on the sex act -- when people read your quote your own words speak for themselves.

[MrFun]

Let's try this again:

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


So now we get into the real game. It doesn't count unless the government affirms your relationships. Well, I'm sorry. The government permits the relationships, and does not have to make everybody love you.

Even Dr. King acknowledges this.

"The laws may not be able to make the white man love me, but they can stop him from lynching me."



And intimate relationships are permitted by law in the US. I don't see what your beef is.



You are actually the reductionist here, because you insist that we are simply the sum of our actions and nothing more. That one cannot make the distinction between the person and the act. You should be thankful the courts do make the distinction, because otherwise, there would be no incentive to rehabilitate anyone. Just hang'em all and be done with it.



Legally you can. It's not the fault of the law that you choose not to.

1) You made the fallacious attempt to distort my argument by making the strawman claim that I argue that the government needs to compel people into relationships that they do not want to be in.

2) Have you no memory? Until recently in United States, sodomy laws were still constitutional -- so the government WAS INDEED violating the privacy of intimate relationships until the Supreme Court ruled otherwise.

3) And again, you make another strawman by making it appear that I am the one emphasizing the sex act, when I am in fact, arguing against this emphasis by arguing that gay relationships have all the meaningful, dignified characteristics that straight relationships have. When I talk about the sex aspect, I am referring to how homophobes and the willfully ignorant focus obssessively on the sex act in order to dehumanize gays to an animalistic level.

[MrFun]

[MrFun]

** plants victory flag on Ben's head **

[Spiffor]

MrFun: I think this thread has outlived its purpose, so there's no need to bump it now

[Mercator]

But wasn't MrFun's "bump" the very purpose of this thread?

[Ben Kenobi]

Until recently in United States, sodomy laws were still constitutional -- so the government WAS INDEED violating the privacy of intimate relationships until the Supreme Court ruled otherwise.

I rest my case. You are fighting a battle already won. Nowhere do I argue that the sodomy regulations ought to be restored.

3) And again, you make another strawman by making it appear that I am the one emphasizing the sex act,

No, not really.

when I am in fact, arguing against this emphasis by arguing that gay relationships have all the meaningful, dignified characteristics that straight relationships have.

And it's neither the relationship, nor the sex act that I am railing against. I'm looking at marriage specifically, and only marriage.

Yes, gay relationships are one thing, but should they be recognised as marriage? That's an entirely different question, one that cannot be addressed without some examination into the purposes of marriage in society.

Marriage is not just about 'affirming' a relationship, but is based upon certain expectations of society upon a specific type of relationship that can be recognised as marriage. Part of these expectations have to do with the nature of the sex act. To deny this, is to deny the reality of the term marriage.

When I talk about the sex aspect, I am referring to how homophobes and the willfully ignorant

I've seen both sides, and I choose my own. I believe you can no longer term me 'ignorant', but rather, that I have sincere reasons for rejecting your arguments.

Do I claim you are ignorant? No. Rather, I offer explanations that provide greater detail and substance than your own.

focus obssessively on the sex act in order to dehumanize gays to an animalistic level.

I'm the one arguing that one can seperate the act from the actor. So how can it be said that I am the one focussing obsessively on the act? Go look in a mirror, Mr. Fun.

And you still neglect my point about reductionism.

[Ben Kenobi]

But wasn't MrFun's "bump" the very purpose of this thread?

[Thorn]

According to my god heterosexuals like Ben Kenobi will go to hell........ try on those apples Ben

[Ben Kenobi]

Do you like Apples?

[Agathon]

Did you know that "Mister Fun" is an anagram for "infer smut"?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

And it's neither the relationship, nor the sex act that I am railing against. I'm looking at marriage specifically, and only marriage.

Yes, gay relationships are one thing, but should they be recognised as marriage? That's an entirely different question, one that cannot be addressed without some examination into the purposes of marriage in society.

Marriage is not just about 'affirming' a relationship, but is based upon certain expectations of society upon a specific type of relationship that can be recognised as marriage. Part of these expectations have to do with the nature of the sex act. To deny this, is to deny the reality of the term marriage.

I'm the one arguing that one can seperate the act from the actor. So how can it be said that I am the one focussing obsessively on the act? Go look in a mirror, Mr. Fun.

And you still neglect my point about reductionism.

First -- do you not see the moralistic hypocrisy in "tolerating" promiscuity of gays but yet denying gays the right to choose to enter into stable, meaningful relationships??


Second -- as far as this reductionist argument, it's like talking to a brick wall with you as I oppose portraying gay relationships merely as animalistic sex acts.

[Thorn]

Second -- as far as this reductionist argument, it's like talking to a brick wall with you as I oppose portraying gay relationships merely as animalistic sex acts.

I concur, my relationship with my BF is far more then just sex......