Start of Civil War? Attacks Across Iraq!

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


Schroeder said long ago, that even though he won't send troops, Germany offers help with training of the Iraqi police and civil authorities. Arrogant fleering from across the Atlantic was the answer. Perhaps some short-sighted minds understand now, how useful it would have been to accept this offer.

You got the actual details of the deal and the rejection of the offer?

Actually I think Chirac vetoed it.

[Harovan]

As far as I know, it hasn't been officially rejected, but rather largely ignored. At least I never heard any acceptance or that the training started (which certainly would have made it in the news). Some people made fun of it, and that's all I heard of this.

I don't see how Chirac could veto anything Germany is offering for herself (not Europe as a whole).

[Ted Striker]

But Chirac runs the French Union

[Harovan]

I can't look up a source now (rushing to work), but it can't be hard to find. It dated in the time the US got the UN resolution for the occupation of Iraq (last autumn, IIRC).

French Union , sure.

[Urban Ranger]

By Rep. Ron Paul

Iraq One Year Later

Is America better off as a result of our war in Iraq? The young men and women who were hurt or killed certainly are no better off. Their families are no better off. Taxpayers are no better off. Whether we are safer from terrorism here at home is an open question. We all hope and pray nothing happens. But even our own intelligence forces cautioned that an invasion and occupation of Muslim Iraq could breed resentment among sympathetic Muslims and serve as a recruiting tool for al Qaeda. As commentator Lew Rockwell states, "It is not caving in to the bees to stop poking a stick into their hive."

Are the Iraqis better off? Saddam is gone, along with his murderous cohorts, and that certainly presents a positive opportunity for the Iraqi people. But we cannot be sure that the Hussein regime will be replaced by something better. Iraq is still very unstable and divided between Sunni, Shiite, and Kurd factions. Civil war could ensue upon the departure of American troops.

[Ted Striker]

It's only been a year

[Alexander's Horse]

I went and had a look recently at the Vietnam casualties year by year from when the advisers went in in 1963. To my surprise I found that whilst the Iraq casualties are not similar they are still comparable.

Apparently one thing that is keeping KIA figures down in Iraq is body armour. Unfortunately or fortunately this, and advances in medicine and casevac, also means more casualties are surviving with catastrophic injuries.

[Ted Striker]

Your first point was a complete troll so cut it out dickhead

Point 2 is worthwhile however

[Harovan]

"It is not caving in to the bees to stop poking a stick into their hive."

That's a great quote, I think it could make it into my sig (well, sigs are spam, but anyway).

Overall I sincerely hope, that the United States don't fail in Iraq. It was not good to poke the stick into their hive in the first place, but it would be catastrophic to poke it and then run away. This beehive has to be contained and civilized now no matter how much they sting. And these pointless and childish arguments should stop at once. Nobody wants a failure in Iraq. Not the new Spain, not Germany and not even France. Let everyone help in the matter he is best. The United States and some others provide the muscle, no doubt. But don't undervalue neither the silk glove of diplomacy nor the knowledge in education, training and nation building the others can provide. As the last unpleasant events show, all these elements are necessary and should be welcome.

[Agathon]

I wonder how many mosques will be blown up today.

I just saw a clip of a huge convoy of ordinary Baghdadis in cars and trucks taking relief supplies and blood to Fallujah. I don't think they'll be allowed to get there (because in Liberated Iraq you can't go where you please) but I suppose it's the thought that counts.

[Eli]

BAGHDAD, April 8 (Reuters) - U.S.-led coalition forces do
not have control of the cities of Najaf and Kut, where Shi'ite
militiamen have seized control of key buildings in the centre of
the towns, the top U.S. general in Iraq said on Thursday.
Lieutenant-General Ricardo Sanchez said coalition troops in
the cities -- who include Ukrainian and Spanish soldiers -- were
in their bases on the edge of the towns.

[Agathon]

Yeah, and the support for the insurgents seems to be building. Oerdin better start handing out a lot more candy or the coalition will lose hearts and minds permanently.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Felch
Shock and Awe fails because it doesn't frighten people. Shock and awe are by their nature temporary. Death is permanent.

"Shock and Awe" was incredibly successful. It's a strategy for winning the war, not the peace. We won the war easily.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by GePap
What do you mean no mayor international backlash? The story is not even fully out.


1. The US can claim it was in the heat of mayor combat-if at any point you guys have 1300 troops trying to pacify a town, meet very heavy resistance, and bomb a mosque, well, then you can ask for equal treatment.

2. sadly, the US gets special rules to play by-not fair to anyone else, but as they say, the law for the rich ain;t the same...

It won;t do **** to win hearts and minds, and even if this operation succeeds in rooting out most militiamen there NOW, it won;t do much to prevent new kids signing up, specially if too much coolateral damage occurs.

Is there something wrong with your keyboard? I don't believe I've ever seen you spell "major" correctly...

[Last Conformist]

I'd be more worried by the consistent use of semicolons for apostrophes.