Socialist claim victory in Spain

[jasev]

If it's the terror act itself that caused the change that this is indeed cowardice. Suddenly the people have realized the supposed immorality of the war?

I'll say again: less than a year ago, PSOE casted more votes than PP in the local elections. PP considered it a victory because it was just after the war and they thought that they'd lose many more votes. And that time, we didn't even know that the WMD didn't exist

[Az]

jasev: how are local election tied to the national ones? Does one vote for the same parties in the locals as in the nationals?

[PLATO]

Originally posted by jasev


RodrÃguez Zapatero has said enouth times that he won't do that. It's too late, the mistake is done and now we have to repair it as best as we can. And now, after the attack, is even more difficult. But as soon as UN thinks we can leave, we'll board our transport planes (Yakolev-42, we rent them because they are cheap and when they fall to the ground, only 42 people die ) and go home.

Yeah, in his first interview he said he would bring them straight home...halfway through the interview he said July 1 if the UN wasn't in control...at the end of the interview he said that he would decide weather or not to remove them after political consultation.

Let's all wait and see before one side or the other starts jumping for joy.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by jasev


I'll say again: less than a year ago, PSOE casted more votes than PP in the local elections. PP considered it a victory because it was just after the war and they thought that they'd lose many more votes. And that time, we didn't even know that the WMD didn't exist

jasev, what do you attribute the 5-10% lead the PP had pre-attack? Was this based more on internal things (like economic policy) and the swing attributable to a refocus on international things or do the people think a government change will keep them safe from al-Qaida?

[jasev]

jasev: how are local election tied to the national ones? Does one vote for the same parties in the locals as in the nationals?

Well, it's not exactly the same, there are local parties that receive more votes in the locals than in the nationals, many people votes a major instead of a party... but usually the results are quite similar.

[jasev]

jasev, what do you attribute the 5-10% lead the PP had pre-attack? Was this based more on internal things (like economic policy) and the swing attributable to a refocus on international things or do the people think a government change will keep them safe from al-Qaida?

They hadn't. 3-5%, according to the opinion polls. And the spanish opinion polls have a huge tradition of mistakes. I think that Al-Queda may have balanced the elections, but the definitive fact were the lies by the government.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by jasev
but the definitive fact were the lies by the government.

*Bush reconsiders Spanish speaking voter registration drives*

[jasev]

Well, the spanish society is used to be lied by the government. We see it normal, and this government has done it many times. We can live with it, and unfortunately the next governments will do similar things.

But to lie about the cause of 200 deaths while we were still looking for corpses in the rests of the trains was too much.

[Drake Tungsten]

I can just hope that it was the lying of the spanish government in the wake of the elections that led to the change in the government, and no fear of further terror acts.

Doesn't matter; it looks like a victory for Al Qaeda (even if it actually wasn't), which is all that matters. Look forward to more attacks like these in the future, as terrorists all over the world see that European countries can be controlled through terror. A very dangerous precedent has been set and I'm very afraid of what the consequences will be...

[jasev]

Doesn't matter; it looks like a victory for Al Qaeda (even if it actually wasn't), which is all that matters. Look forward to more attacks like these in the future, as terrorists all over the world see that European countries can be controlled through terror. A very dangerous precedent has been set and I'm very afraid of what the consequences will be...

Isn't it beautiful how people believe in democracy only when their favourite candidates win?

[Spiffor]

Jasev:

If it was the ETA, and if the PPr had won because of this, the roles would be inverted you know...

[Drake Tungsten]

Isn't it beautiful how people believe in democracy only when their favourite candidates win?

Where did I criticize democracy? I don't really care who won; what I do care about is that the surprise comeback by the Socialists in the wake of the bombings looks like a tremendous victory for Al Qaeda, which is sure to spawn more terrorism in the future.

[jasev]

If it was the ETA, and if the PPr had won because of this, the roles would be inverted you know...

I would have NEVER written that a democratic election is a victory for a terrorist group. And saying such things is an insult to the almost 11 million people that voted for PSOE.

A democratic election is a victory for the people.

[Spiffor]

This thread had me thinking...

I'm talking to the Americans of this thread: imagine Bush and Kerry are pretty close to each other one week before election day.
Imagine there is a train attack is, say, New York, just a few days before the election.
Imagine Bush is trying to weasel out of it, blaming the attack on some lunatic militia instead of Al-Qaeda, despite mounting evidence.
Imagine how people will react. Do you think the ousting of Bush will be a terrorist victory then?

[Ancyrean]

Check this cnn report. I'm watching CNN live and the new Spanish foreign minister just reconfirmed live that he's withdrawing all the troops from Iraq until June 30 barring new action by the UN (any bets on the UN?).

One very haunting thought is: What do the Al-Qaeda organisers of these attacks think and feel after this decision of the Spanish PM? What does this tell them to do next? Do they feel victorious or defeated by this choice of the people? Can it not be, just a remote possibility, that they hoped to bring this about?

I respect the decision of the Spanish people and understand their frustration about being cheated about the truth, in terms of government suppression of facts (the ETA-did-it-explanation) and about the reasons put forward to them justify going to war in Iraq with the US...But this question is truly disturbing conundrum to me...