NHL Thread: String Bertuzzi Up

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Again, losing Bert for 12 games is going to hurt Vancouver, enough.

Hockey is very much a team sport, and I do realize this is going to hurt Vancouver, but what he did hurts Colorado.

Not that it matters, because high-profile players shouldn't get a lighter punishment than no-name players. Consistent, harsh penalties are required -- not ones that are harsh to Jim Beck of the Pittsburgh Penguins and easy on Todd Bertuzi of the Vancouver Canucks...

[Seeker]

I go away for a single year and Imran and the Americans want to **** up hockey!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Bertuzzi wasn't out to fight the guy, he was out to hurt him. If he had intended to fight him, he would not have smacked him from behind and then jumped on him on the ground already.

It's part of the game. Where retaliation and fighting are accepted 'codes' of the sport. Take that stuff away and don't ***** foot around it.

I go away for a single year and Imran and the Americans want to **** up hockey!

So does Gretzky I take it then?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
It's part of the game. Where retaliation and fighting are accepted 'codes' of the sport. Take that stuff away and don't ***** foot around it.

I don't think you get it. Adding rules won't change the mentality of these hockey players, nor how the game works in North America. If you ban fighting, you're still going to get retaliation. But instead of being in consentual fights, it'll be in hard, questionable hits on somebody unprepared -- something that will be far more prevalent than it is now.

There's nothing wrong with fighting in hockey. If anything, it adds another dynamic to the game with the concept of enforcers. Calgary's Oliwa doesn't score a lot of goals, nor does he set up many plays, but he's a very good enforcer for the team. Same thing with the recently acquired Simon.

By the way, I do agree with you -- it's part of the game.

[Ben Kenobi]

Still totally legal.

Was it?

Bertuzzi wasn't out to fight the guy, he was out to hurt him. If he had intended to fight him, he would not have smacked him from behind and then jumped on him on the ground already.

How do you know that he intended to hurt, and not to fight?

Consistent, harsh penalties are required -- not ones that are harsh to Jim Beck of the Pittsburgh Penguins and easy on Todd Bertuzi of the Vancouver Canucks...

Why should they? A player who is a goon, is a goon. Someone like Todd Bertuzzi deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I will remember your remarks should Iginla have the same happen with him.

[joncha]

Bertuzzi shouldn't get any special treatment just because he's a star player. I think something on par with McSorley's suspension would be fair. If that means no Bert in the playoffs, so be it.

I think the rest of the regular season is a good minimum punishment, and I could accept an argument for the entire post-season as well (it would give us Canucks fans an excuse other than Cloutier for a change). I think an ideal suspension would be until the second round of the playoffs, because 16-19 games are long enough and it doesn't let the team off the hook just because the playoff are starting.

jon.

[Ben Kenobi]

Imran:

Take that stuff away and don't ***** foot around it.

And how would you take it out of the game? Make it like basketball, or figure skating on ice?

Hockey is a rough and tumble game, different from Baseball and Football, and Basketball. All of these games have much less physical contact than hockey.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Adding rules won't change the mentality of these hockey players

'These' is the primary word. Perhaps not 'these' players, but perhaps with future players. And these words were used when American football banned the rough stuff (to stay legal). It was said it wouldn't change the cheap shot mentality of the players... but in a few years it did.

But instead of being in consentual fights, it'll be in hard, questionable hits on somebody unprepared -- something that will be far more prevalent than it is now.

At least that will be a part of the flow of the game. There is nothing wrong with hard hits on players. You shouldn't be unprepared flying down the ice. Hard, clean hitting is ok. Fighting and retalitory slashing is not and should be treated harshly to say this isn't a bush league where you can go nuts and relive "Slap Shot".

If anything, it adds another dynamic to the game with the concept of enforcers.

A utterly useless and boring dynamic? Enforcers are wasted space on the bench.

Was it?

Yes. 100%.

[Ben Kenobi]

I think something on par with McSorley's suspension would be fair. If that means no Bert in the playoffs, so be it.

A sucker punch is not the equivalent of swinging your stick.

I think the rest of the regular season is a good minimum punishment, and I could accept an argument for the entire post-season as well (it would give us Canucks fans an excuse other than Cloutier for a change). I think an ideal suspension would be until the second round of the playoffs, because 16-19 games are long enough and it doesn't let the team off the hook just because the playoff are starting.

There have been other examples of this type of sucker punch in the league. None of them received anywhere close to what McSorley did for swinging his stick at the head of Brashear.

I don't think Bert meant to injure, whereas, I could not say the same for McSorley.

That being said, why not a compromise. First two games of the playoffs, given the fact that Bert is the HIGHEST PAID PLAYER of the Vancouver Canucks, and is one of the reasons they have done so well this year.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Was it?

Yes, the NHL already ruled on it.

How do you know that he intended to hurt, and not to fight?

When you intend to fight, you usually drop your gloves. Even then, you do NOT bean them so hard from behind that you're apt to break their neck...

Why should they? A player who is a goon, is a goon. Someone like Todd Bertuzzi deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I dunno, a goon is somebody who displays goon-like behavior. Calling what Bertuzzi did the act of a "goon" is understating its severity.

I will remember your remarks should Iginla have the same happen with him.

If Iginla ever does that, by all means, don't give him any special treatment.

Although, Iginla is a notoriously well-tempered and polite player. We raise them well in Alberta.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I don't think Bert meant to injure, whereas, I could not say the same for McSorley.

Give me a break -- why else would you hit somebody so ****ing hard when you know you're a huge guy, if not to intend to hurt them?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I don't think Bert meant to injure

You're a Vancouver fanboy aren't you? You come up from behind (not even from the front!) pull the jersey, clock him upside the head and then force him onto the ice and there is no intent to injure?! What?!

[joncha]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi That being said, why not a compromise. First two games of the playoffs, given the fact that Bert is the HIGHEST PAID PLAYER of the Vancouver Canucks, and is one of the reasons they have done so well this year.

That might work... ie, a 15 game suspension (regular season and playoffs). Its a nice, round number and long enough to send a strong message. Through in a hefty fine, and we've got a deal. I am, however, another Canucks fan... I doubt the Avs fans would be so accepting.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yes, the NHL already ruled on it.

Players felt Vancouver got a raw deal, given that Naslund was the leading scorer in the league.

When you intend to fight, you usually drop your gloves. Even then, you do NOT bean them so hard from behind that you're apt to break their neck...

"he was slugged in the side of the head by Bertuzzi late in Monday night's game at GM Place. "

Bert's a big player. He gets mad, he can really pummel someone.

I dunno, a goon is somebody who displays goon-like behavior. Calling what Bertuzzi did the act of a "goon" is understating its severity.

Is it? It's not the first, nor will it be the last sucker punch.

[joncha]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I don't think Bert meant to injure

You're a Vancouver fanboy aren't you? You come up from behind (not even from the front!) pull the jersey, clock him upside the head and then force him onto the ice and there is no intent to injure?! What?!

But Imran, God is on Vancouver's side!