If Bush is considered 'What is Republican'...

[Sava]

I agree. A lot of times in the Senate, you vote on your pal's bill so your bill can go through. Or you vote with your party, so you can get your bills through. OR, you vote to placate your constituency, which may be different than the rest of the country.

You gotta realize what Senators do before harping on their record.

or perhaps the bill is going to pass regardless of your vote, and you vote the opposite of what you normally would vote just to placate someone... or to appear more moderate.

Well, of course it is. The thing is that both parties are massive super-parties. They are coalitions themselves. You can see this by the infighting within parties. The Republicans especially have many different sub-parties which wrestle for control.

having only two choices isn't healthy democracy... it's a duopoly.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Ned
In my book, anyone who would consider voting for Kerry is not a Republican and has never been a Republican. Republicans are patriotic, pro-business and socially conservative. Kerry is the antithesis of everything that is Republican.

the Nedaverse is an interesting place isn't it

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sava
the Nedaverse is an interesting place isn't it

Sava, Surely you are not claiming that Kerry exhibits any of the characteristics of a Republican?

[Imran Siddiqui]

In my book, anyone who would consider voting for Kerry is not a Republican and has never been a Republican.

I'm glad to know what the Nedaverse thinks. Fortunetly we don't live there.

or perhaps the bill is going to pass regardless of your vote, and you vote the opposite of what you normally would vote just to placate someone... or to appear more moderate.

Ah, that too.

having only two choices isn't healthy democracy... it's a duopoly.

I don't see the big deal. I mean, there is more than one choice... it's in the primaries. Both parties are mass coalitions. No European party has the depth of different beliefs of its members as the Democrats and Republicans in the US do.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

No European party has the depth of different beliefs of its members as the Democrats and Republicans in the US do.

and thats precisely the problem. since neither party is specialized, they dont really stand for anything.

[Ned]

Imran, you are obviously in agreement with me as you are voting for Kerry, primarily, as you stated, because you are against social conservatism, are in now in favor of raising taxes to balance the budget (Kerry's plan) and are against patriotism.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

hahahah. just like you're for liberty ned. hahahaah. youre so full of ****, im about to pass out from noxious gasses.

btw, Kerry's not a patriot? hahahahaha. its a disgrace that you're a californian.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Ned
Sava, Surely you are not claiming that Kerry exhibits any of the characteristics of a Republican?

well, he's more patriotic than Bush (in the sense that being a patriot means doing what is best for your country and not going to war for a vendetta)... Kerry is pro-business in the sense that he wants to empower consumers and alleviate the tax-burden on the middle class so that businesses can have more customers.

Socially conservative? this is an iffy definition. I'm socially conservative... but there's a difference between being conservative and being authoritarian. "Conservatives" claim that they don't want big government telling people what to do, but yet, when it comes to sex, drugs, and rock and roll... they do want the government telling people what they can and can't do.

Looking at Kerry's policies, he's not on the fringe or on the extreme of anything. A lot of his policies make sense. I think he can do a better job stabilizing Iraq. I think he has a greater understanding of what needs to be done to improve domestic security (while Bush cares more about protecting corporate costs than the American people *this is in reference to not wanting to federalize airline security). I think Kerry's economic policies are leaning to the free-trade side. He's not protectionist like Bush. And he's pro-business in the sense he wants to reward businesses that employ Americans.

I don't know how any of Kerry's policy proposals could be classified as unPatriotic, anti-business, or against socially conservative values. I think Kerry would be a lot like Clinton, but without the intern ass-grabbing.

Imran is one of those pragmatic Republicans.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Ned
Imran, you are obviously in agreement with me as you are voting for Kerry, primarily, as you stated, because you are against social conservatism, are in now in favor of raising taxes to balance the budget (Kerry's plan) and are against patriotism.

it's not raising taxes, it's restorting the tax code... and Kerry is proposing more tax credits to the middle and working class than Bush. Plus, I think Kerry will spend less than Bush... and spend more responsibly (which isn't hard BTW).

[Imran Siddiqui]

Imran, you are obviously in agreement with me as you are voting for Kerry, primarily, as you stated, because you are against social conservatism, are in now in favor of raising taxes to balance the budget (Kerry's plan) and are against patriotism.

See it's the last thing that you haven't proven. That's why it is in the Nedaverse.

--

I think I've also come to the realization that I don't want an 'average joe' running things. It may not be PC, but bring on the elitists . I like a President who listens to classical sometimes, writes poetry, reads novels, knows what a political philosopher is (Jesus ain't it), etc. Give me a GHW Bush anyday .

[Sava]

I think I've also come to the realization that I don't want an 'average joe' running things. It may not be PC, but bring on the elitists . I like a President who listens to classical sometimes, writes poetry, reads novels, knows what a political philosopher is (Jesus ain't it), etc.

or at least a president who reads a newspaper in the morning... for ****'s sake!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Kerry is proposing more tax credits to the middle and working class than Bush.

Indeed . He isn't just saying he wants program X, Y, and Z. He is saying he wants to promote things and give TAX CREDITS for X, Y, and Z.

or at least a president who reads a newspaper in the morning... for ****'s sake!

Actually Bush does... it's kind of a myth to make him seem more like the "common man". Laura Bush has said that her and George read about 6 papers at breakfast.... and not just the funny pages .

But still... he does have a lack of culture. Hell, I'm sounding like Bill Bennett here .

[Imran Siddiqui]

join the darkside imran - vote libertarian. (although their candidates for prez look scary)

I REALLY can't vote for someone who says abolish the income tax. That's just retarded.

[Sava]

Actually Bush does... it's kind of a myth to make him seem more like the "common man". Laura Bush has said that her and George read about 6 papers at breakfast.... and not just the funny pages

somehow, I don't believe her... maybe it's a common myth, but Dubya doesn't seemed very informed.

I REALLY can't vote for someone who says abolish the income tax. That's just retarded.

[Imran Siddiqui]

somehow, I don't believe her... maybe it's a common myth, but Dubya doesn't seemed very informed.

I dunno... I think he's much smarter than Rove has him portrayed. I think he's actually pretty sharp in politics. He just doesn't like the finer things in life .

--

Btw, I'm still trying to find out how I'm unpatriotic.