If Bush is considered 'What is Republican'...

[Whoha]

"WHAT SHOULD THE REPUBLICAN PARTY STAND FOR:

IRAQ WAR

Fez: For
Harry: For
Imran: For, but could have been handled better.
Ben: Against


ABORTION

Ben: Against in all
Harry: Against, other than rape
Fez: Against, other than rape
Imran: For, other than Partial Birth

RELIGIOUS CHARITIES

Ben: For
Imran: For
Harry: For
Fez: Against


GAY MARRIAGE

Ben: Against
Harry: For
Imran: For
Fez: For

TAX CUTS

Fez: For
Harry: For
Ben: For
Imran: For, but not top"

1)sensible trade policyIE a recent deal we just signed with China lets them put a 25% tariff on cars from the US, while we will only put a 2.5% tariff on their cars...).

2)Getting rid of debt,deficits

3)sensible immigration policy

everything else for the time being is a sideshow that can be kicked to the states(maybe not the Iraq war...).

[Shi Huangdi]

This thread reminds me a thread Che amde from way back in 2000. He pointed out that many on the left were considering voting for Bush in 2000. They were annoyed with Clinton, felt he had been too militarily agressive. So they decided to vote for Bush, because he seemed like he would be more isolationist based on what he said and decreasing what they considered to be US Imperialism was what was important

I'd imagine those progressives who voted for Bush in 2000 probably regret. I'd imagine conservatives who vote for Kerry in 2004 may also regret their vote if this man who consistently ranks as either the most liberal or one of the most liberal voters in the Senate.

[Harry Tuttle]

One thing that has to be considered is who the backers of the candidates are. A candidate may say they stand for a certain thing but it is far more likely they will have to conform to what their supporters want, at least eventually. Take Bush W. He has given some nods to the Christian Coalition, specifically his "faith based initiative". Clinton's supporters were the soccer moms and the middle aged yuppies. He focused on placating them, to an extent.

My fear is that Kerry, even though he seems like a "sensible democrat", the kind the suburbian population would call a "traditional dem", will be influenced to much by the ferevent left. That is, the far left wingers (anti-military, lumbering social program money pits, higher taxes). To an extent, I can see another period of placation and isolationalism if Kerry is elected. Hell, I see another 1992.

Kerry just seems like a Bizarro Bob Dole. He's not spectacular, his so so. He spent so much time in Congress that he looks to be more of the same. He's even got his own Pat Buchanon smoldering in the background. I see a repeat of the 1996 elections.

@ Che: Idealism is impotent without realism. Candidates for office can't be a total personal favorite.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Harry Tuttle
My fear is that Kerry, even though he seems like a "sensible democrat", the kind the suburbian population would call a "traditional dem", will be influenced to much by the ferevent left. That is, the far left wingers (anti-military, lumbering social program money pits, higher taxes).

Good God man! He's a higher rated liberal than Ted Kennedy.

[Sava]

you know, by Giancarlo's logic, I could ge against everything he is FOR and still be a moderate Republican

sorry Giancarlo... but you are a corporatist... and you are anything but moderate.

Iraq War - Against Bush's war... I support the idea of getting Saddam, but did not feel it was urgent.
Abortion - absolutely pro-choice... decisions about a woman's reproductive system aren't the business of the government or anyone else.
Religious Charities - let them compete with secular charities
Gay marriage - absolutely pro... I don't care what you call it. I'd prefer the government not meddle with marriage (hetero or homo)
Bush Tax Cuts - absolutely against... sorry but 45% of the money went to people who didn't need it. And the whole supply side argument of stimulating the economy is garbage. If government was running surpluses, or if business NEEDED cash to create jobs, then I would support them. But the government, after 2001, needed revenue. And the deficits are NOT about the War or terrorism. The iraq war is left out of the budget.

Overall, you could label me a social liberal (or libertarian)... but I believe government should provide health care (or the very least, insurance that competes with private insurances to those who don't have it), and social safety nets. But I believe there is too much waste in government. I'd probably agree more with the McCain's when it comes to spending.

Imran: I think this thread is just proof we need more political parties in America. The two-party system we have IS NOT democracy.

[Harry Tuttle]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Good God man! He's a higher rated liberal than Ted Kennedy.

Yeah but I live in Dennis Kucinich's district.

I've grown up with Irish Dems and for some reason they still think the Democratic Party is still run by FDR. It may not be true, but a lot of people think of him as just another Democrat from Massachusetts.

[Sava]

Good God man! He's a higher rated liberal than Ted Kennedy.

oh please... it's just another silly label. Look at the policies Kerry would execute. Don't worry about what some dopey "non-partisan" group says about someone's voting record.

[Shi Huangdi]

"oh please... it's just another silly label. Look at the policies Kerry would execute. Don't worry about what some dopey "non-partisan" group says about someone's voting record. "

It's not just Conservative Groups. Look at the ratings of leftist groups like Americans for Democratic Action, or even non-ideological Political Science analysis pieces like National Journal rate him as as one of the most leftist people in the Democratic Party.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

join the darkside imran - vote libertarian. (although their candidates for prez look scary)

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
You are as left wing as Chegitz and Agathon.

Sig material

[Sava]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
"oh please... it's just another silly label. Look at the policies Kerry would execute. Don't worry about what some dopey "non-partisan" group says about someone's voting record. "

It's not just Conservative Groups. Look at the ratings of leftist groups like Americans for Democratic Action, or even non-ideological Political Science analysis pieces like National Journal rate him as as one of the most leftist people in the Democratic Party.

all I know is that all the lefties on the Democratic Undergound don't like Kerry all that much... I dislike him, but for different reasons. He's still the lesser of two evils though... by far!

The problem is, Senate votes aren't the most effective indicator of someones policies. Kerry's never had to do any of the things people on the Executive branch have had to do. I'd say about half of the votes in the Senate aren't in line with someone's political ideology. It's not an accurate indicator. And the groups and people harping on those shady results are people like jimmytrick and Ned who just want to throw the "liberal" label around.

[Imran Siddiqui]

What's Kerry going to do that's worse than Bush? Run record deficits? Put in a massive new entitlement program? Throw money at the NEA?

Indeed. I figure if we can get some gridlock it'll be good for the country again. If Kerry gets a Dem Congress then it won't be any worse than Bush with a Republican one.

Sort of a Republican support group, you know?

Like a lot of people on this thread I defined myself as "socially left/fiscally right", which to the average schlub essentially means a smaller government, less taxes, and pro-choice.

Indeed . Like Arnie called it: Pragmatic Libertarianism.

Bush fail to put those Christian Fundie Minister who make those supid remark against Islam in jail for startly religious war with Islam.

Um... there is a thing called the 1st Amendment. He should have denounced the comments though.

[Kuciwalker]

Even if I could vote in the coming election, I wouldn't. I don't want ANYONE to win...

[Imran Siddiqui]

I don't understand the concept of voting for someone just because you think he's going to win.

Well, you have to be in the party to understand. If you back McCain vocally and then Bush wins, you are left holding the rope. You are, frankly, marginalized. Those who backed Bush earlier leapfrog you. This happens in both parties.

You were reassuring us that it didn't matter that Bush wasn't very bright, as he was surrounding himself with some top-flight advisors. Perhaps you were thinking of Cheney, Rove, Ashcroft, and Rumsfeld?

Problem is that Bush is much more in control of the White House than I thought he would be.

even if I doubt I will ever be able to comprehend your adoration of Reagan, of all people!

LOL! Even if I vote for Kerry, I'll love Ronnie til the day I die .

Oh, and thanks for the kind words. Let this be a lesson to those who say I never admit when I'm wrong.

One thing that has to be considered is who the backers of the candidates are.

Indeed. See, that is why I'm not scared of Kerry. Dean was pandering to the lefties and those were his backers (so his policies didn't matter, his 'base' was the left-wing). Kerry's base is the moderate DLC democrats.

Imran: I think this thread is just proof we need more political parties in America. The two-party system we have IS NOT democracy.

Well, of course it is. The thing is that both parties are massive super-parties. They are coalitions themselves. You can see this by the infighting within parties. The Republicans especially have many different sub-parties which wrestle for control.

The problem is, Senate votes aren't the most effective indicator of someones policies.

I agree. A lot of times in the Senate, you vote on your pal's bill so your bill can go through. Or you vote with your party, so you can get your bills through. OR, you vote to placate your constituency, which may be different than the rest of the country.

You gotta realize what Senators do before harping on their record.

[Ned]

In my book, anyone who would consider voting for Kerry is not a Republican and has never been a Republican. Republicans are patriotic, pro-business and socially conservative. Kerry is the antithesis of everything that is Republican.