Affirmative Action for Conservative Professors

[Whaleboy]

That's just it - it's not a free marketplace. Conservative groups are discriminated against by college administrators.

Evidence? Thus far, it has been shown that (a) there are less of them and (b) the logical consistency of what they wish to teach is lacking.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ned:

Thanks for the post. I figured your post would rile both those on the left and the right.

I would be wary about making broad stroke generalisations of libertarians as conservatives. I know many conservatives who feel Roe is bad law, even if they do not agree with me on the personhood of the unborn child. Imran would be one of these folks.

I agree, that human rights are more likely to come from the right, and not the left. Look at Dr. Martin Luther King. He's considered the champion of the left, yet much of what he stood for would be considered outmoded by the standards of the left today. Positively conservative.

Same in Britain. You have William Wilberforce abolishing slavery, who argues from a very conservative standpoint, that these are persons, therefore, they should be accorded fundamental rights and freedoms. Again, an argument from the right, in that he relies upon religious tradition, that all people are equal regardless of the colour of their skin.

Now what do we have today? I wonder if Warren would be so quick to pass Roe when faced with arguments that the unborn child is a human person, like any other child, privacy cannot allow one to kill another person.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Whaleboy


Evidence? Thus far, it has been shown that (a) there are less of them and (b) the logical consistency of what they wish to teach is lacking.

I could give you many examples of instances in which conservative college groups have been unfairly restricted on liberal campuses in the US. Right now I don't have the time to search around for the appropriate links, but many US posters here can verify that what I say is true.

As for logical consistency, well that's just your point of view isn't it? If you feel your views are logically consistent then you should have the courage to subject them to scrutiny from the other side.

[Ben Kenobi]

that's exactly what Kant says.

True. I would argue that that is a fundamental limitation of reason, not of Free will. It is like this. If we could understand everything in our mind, we would have to have a bigger mind in order to process all that information.

Ben, Dualism is a scientifically dead idea. Get over it.

BTW, I am an Identity Monist (mind is the same as the brain)

Well, I would argue, that science cannot offer insights into dualism anyways.

[Ramo]

A computer is not self-aware, as demonstrated by the fact that it doesn't realize that it's self-aware.

Only a self-aware being makes choices.

Why does one need to be "self-aware" to make choices? If the algorithm in my brain can make a choice, why can't a computer or an ant? Given some initial conditions in either case, their biological algorithms will spit out a certain decision. The only difference is that a human person's algorithm is more complicated than a computer's or an ant's.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Ramo


Why does one need to be "self-aware" to make choices? If the algorithm in my brain can make a choice, why can't a computer or an ant? Given some initial conditions in either case, their biological algorithms will spit out a certain decision. The only difference is that a human person's algorithm is more complicated than a computer's or an ant's.

As you seem to have an idea of how a computer program works, I'm suprised to hear you say this. You know as well as I that computers don't make choices - they respond to input. They cannot even form concepts let alone be self-aware.

[Whaleboy]

BK: I would recommend that linking notions of "left" and "right" to notions beyond that of economics is a fallacy. That is very one-dimensional, whereas I can think of at least 3/4 off hand that render it inoperable as a concept.

I could give you many examples of instances in which conservative college groups have been unfairly restricted on liberal campuses in the US. Right now I don't have the time to search around for the appropriate links, but many US posters here can verify that what I say is true.

The conservative ones? . Furthermore that is in the US, whereas I am coming from a UK perspective. Personally though, I cannot say that I think that conservatism in the US (if we're talking neo-con) is as tenable as liberalism (which is heading in a taboo direction unfortunately there) in terms of academics, but that's not what it's about. Liberalism is spawned somewhat in academia, unlike conservatism. Unfairly restricted? This requires clarification, I am assuming employment and teaching opportunities.

As for logical consistency, well that's just your point of view isn't it?

My views are irrelevant, I am merely echoing what I believe to be the consensus in academic circles. I am a relativist, so I'm not about to start saying one view is inherently worse than another, the farthest I am prepared to go is the question of tenability, which denotes pragmatism in a given context, in this case, universities and philosophical inquiry.

If you feel your views are logically consistent then you should have the courage to subject them to scrutiny from the other side.

Which is why there are students. Consider liberalism and conservatism to be products. From an academic standpoint, one is more palletable than the other, its like shopping for shoes. If the conservatives want to be included, they should offer better shoes. Whether or not that is possible is sidetracking.

[Ramo]

As you seem to have an idea of how a computer program works, I'm suprised to hear you say this. You know as well as I that computers don't make choices - they respond to input. They cannot even form concepts let alone be self-aware

We respond to input too. Like I said, the only difference is the complexity of the algorithm.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
The conservative ones? . Furthermore that is in the US, whereas I am coming from a UK perspective. Personally though, I cannot say that I think that conservatism in the US (if we're talking neo-con) is as tenable as liberalism (which is heading in a taboo direction unfortunately there) in terms of academics, but that's not what it's about. Liberalism is spawned somewhat in academia, unlike conservatism. Unfairly restricted? This requires clarification, I am assuming employment and teaching opportunities.

Not just that, but when students form conservative groups on campus they are more likely to face opposition from college administrators than if they were to form a liberal group.

My views are irrelevant, I am merely echoing what I believe to be the consensus in academic circles. I am a relativist, so I'm not about to start saying one view is inherently worse than another, the farthest I am prepared to go is the question of tenability, which denotes pragmatism in a given context, in this case, universities and philosophical inquiry.

You know as well as I do that people in general tend to favor those who think the way they do. Therefore if college administrators are largely liberal then conservative views are less likely to have voice. While you say you don't believe one view is inherently worse than another, you act as though the general tendency of academia to support your side proves it's superiority.

Which is why there are students. Consider liberalism and conservatism to be products. From an academic standpoint, one is more palletable than the other, its like shopping for shoes. If the conservatives want to be included, they should offer better shoes. Whether or not that is possible is sidetracking.

That's fine. I just want both sides to have an equal chance to be represented.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Ramo


We respond to input too. Like I said, the only difference is the complexity of the algorithm.

A computer can see an image or hear a sound that links it to a command, but it can never form a concept of the input.

[Ramo]

As as I said, it's not very smart.

[Ramo]

Just to clarify, I wasn't arguing that computers are self-aware, just that they have as much free will as we do.

[Ramo]

Not just that, but when students form conservative groups on campus they are more likely to face opposition from college administrators than if they were to form a liberal group.

They are? I've never heard of my school persecuting the Young Conservatives of Texas.

[Ben Kenobi]

The whole point of conservatism is absense of a general, underlying philosophy (just an observation), or if there is a philosophy, it consists of a paradoxical pramatism

Okay, I'm going to have to sum up an excellent essay, since I cannot find the online source anymore.

What are the elements of classical conservatism?
Most of the definitions go back to the views of Edmund Burke.

1. Man is fundamentally corrupt. You cannot perfect man through society, you can only restrain him.

2. Government, as a necessary evil, requiring the authority to restrain men.

3. Traditional elements in society are to be defended, because to tear at one, tears at all the rest. Changes to society, must always have compelling reasons before they are to be implemented.

4. Protection of men from each other. The concept, that people can indeed harm themselves, and the rejection of a victimless crime. In one case, prostitution, is not a victimless crime, because of the effects that prostitution has on the indulger.

5. Rights are based on Natural Law, and not on edicts of society. Fundamental freedoms, such as speech, religion, and life are to be acknowledged rather than procured by the government.

[Ben Kenobi]

As for restrictions on conservative groups on campus, go here.

http://www.abortionviolence.com/VIOL-BC.HTM

On November 23, 1999, pro-abortionists physically attacked pro-life students as they stood peacefully beside their display tables at the University of British Columbia. The Pro-life students were participating in a University approved display when three pro-aborts came up to the tables and began to tear the posters and shred the literature, demolishing the presentation. The violence was all captured on video tape and was given to police, but, of course, no charges were filed against the pro-aborts.