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  • Affirmative Action for Conservative Professors

    This is an interesting read as are the two articles it links to on the right of the page.



    I think it is hilarious that conservatives are now arguing along the lines of "political quotas" because most university academics are liberal. What happened to the "free marketplace of ideas"?

    For the record I have never graded a student's paper lower because it contained conservative views; but to the extent that most conservatism is a grab bag of ill-defined prejudices I can see why that might happen.

    Presumably this only concerns the humanities and social sciences (and probably excludes economics departments and business schools which are much more right wing). An interesting comparison would be the sciences. Why is it that the sciences are prejudiced against Christian views on the creation of the universe and evolutionary theory? Isn't this a terrible thing? Christian students should righteously agitate for Creationist views to be equally represented in the university!!!

    Of course this is not going to happen for the obvious reason that Creationism is not intellectually respectable.

    Why must this be different in other subjects like English, Philosophy and History? I'm guessing it's because people believe that these subjects are matters of mere opinion rather than factual investigations, primarily because they deal with values. The problem is that values are as real as anything else - you try to imagine a world without any kinds of value at all.

    Moreover the sciences are not value free either - they are supposed to be valuable, so that presupposes a clear conception of value to begin with. Nor is it the case that subjects in the humanities do not deal with facts. Subjects like history and political science are awash in facts (the relationship of philosophy with facts is more complicated since the notion factuality is one of the most important things that is investigated in the subject). More to the point, apart from a few postmodernist cretins, these subjects no less than the sciences are practised in a way that raises logic and argument to the status of holy writ.

    So why are the conservatives doing so badly. Well, for one thing it isn't clear that they are across the board. Economics departments have a profoundly right wing bias because the general trend in economics has been towards an increased role for markets and a decreased role for the state (I think that's currently on the turn though). In short, for some time the right have been winning the war of ideas in this discipline.

    On the other hand, with the notable exclusion of religious studies, religion has basically been expunged from the curriculum. Perhaps 150 years ago a student could make an argument based on scripture and be taken seriously, that is no longer the case because appeals to religion have been largely discredited in the academic community. And without their religious basis most conservative beliefs on social matters are reduced to the status of unsupported prejudices. One need only consider contemporary studies in punishment. Conservative writers on punishment are largely confined to theoretical justifications of retributivism because all the facts swing the other way. Disciplines like evolutionary psychology are providing us with new ways of thinking about crime and new prospects for effective crime prevention. In the face of such mountainous research, conservative attitudes to punishment are simply seen as irrelevant.

    In subjects like history, conservatives are also on the back foot. Since conservatives have historically tended to support established power, the first discovery that most students make on studying history (that the establishment tends to be Machiavellian) tends to lead students with a conscience to move to the left. For example, someone who knows that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was a fake, or that the government spies on legitimate protests, is not going to view Bush's excuses with much enthusiasm. This is what accounts for the antiestablishment trend among academics. Conservatism is generally speaking indefensible from a moral point of view. I remember reading about the conservative campaigns against universal suffrage, women's rights, and racial equality. When I see current conservative campaigns against gay rights, it is hard not to remember the lessons of history.

    So to some up, the reason that conservative views fare badly at university is mainly because they are not intellectually respectable. In any number of disciplines the facts speak against conservatism. People often complain that those academic brainiacs have their head in the clouds, but what does it say when institutions dedicated to intellectual excellence largely support liberalism? If you don't think it's because the liberals are largely right, then you are putting forth a conspiracy theory. The simplest explanation is that when a general viewpoint is produced by vigorous research and criticism, that viewpoint is more likely to be right (or should I say left ).
    Only feebs vote.

  • #2
    I agree.
    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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    • #3
      Interesting subject, Agathon.

      On the other hand, with the notable exclusion of religious studies, religion has basically been expunged from the curriculum.

      Perhaps 150 years ago a student could make an argument based on scripture and be taken seriously, that is no longer the case because appeals to religion have been largely discredited in the academic community.
      This is the real tragedy. I'm an artsie, and I have had many many communist profs who get to include the communist manifesto in their history classes, regardless of the actual topic at hand.

      There is no good reason to expunge religion from the 'free marketplace of ideas.' I have had to do research on my own, and find my own classes to learn more about religion.

      Does it benefit me in my real courses? Very much so. How can I understand the writing of Shakespeare, without some knowledge of Catholicism, and of Anglicanism, and the conflicts between the two in the Elizabethan period?

      If I did not know that Catholicism was the religion of England at the time of most of the history plays, how could I possibly understand the motivations between the various characters?

      I have also taken a Milton class, with the same problems. How do you understand the author while at the same time expunging religion?
      Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
      "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
        Interesting subject, Agathon.



        This is the real tragedy. I'm an artsie, and I have had many many communist profs who get to include the communist manifesto in their history classes, regardless of the actual topic at hand.

        There is no good reason to expunge religion from the 'free marketplace of ideas.' I have had to do research on my own, and find my own classes to learn more about religion.

        Does it benefit me in my real courses? Very much so. How can I understand the writing of Shakespeare, without some knowledge of Catholicism, and of Anglicanism, and the conflicts between the two in the Elizabethan period?

        If I did not know that Catholicism was the religion of England at the time of most of the history plays, how could I possibly understand the motivations between the various characters?

        I have also taken a Milton class, with the same problems. How do you understand the author while at the same time expunging religion?
        It seems to me that you are arguing that religious history and/or religion's role in society is valuable knowledge, and I don't think that is in dispute. What appears to be in question is using religious dogma as supporting evidence for a position.
        "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
        "you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
        "I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident

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        • #5
          So to some up, the reason that conservative views fare badly at university is mainly because they are not intellectually respectable.
          It's interesting that someone so Liberal is so quick to dismiss opposing viewpoints as "not intellectual respectable". In fact, it probably shows the hypocrisy a bit too well.

          I don't believe in quotas at any rate. If you don't want liberal artsy profs, go into Computer Science or Engineering. We make fun of those kinds of poofs.
          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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          • #6
            Another thing an "intellectually responsible" person would be able to do is differenciate between "Conservatives" and "Religious Conservatives".

            Not all Conservatives are religious, not all Liberals are atheists, so stop pigeonholing to make a convenient argument.
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Kontiki

              It seems to me that you are arguing that religious history and/or religion's role in society is valuable knowledge, and I don't think that is in dispute. What appears to be in question is using religious dogma as supporting evidence for a position.
              Yep. I've spent many happy hours doing the former at uni.

              As for Asher's comments: the fact that engineering professors attempt to pontificate on someone else's area of expertise is amusing. I certainly wouldn't pontificate on bridge building.

              As I said, if you think anything other than that liberalism is the consensus because it is winning the war of ideas, you are promoting what is essentially a conspiracy theory.
              Only feebs vote.

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              • #8
                Conservative social policy makes little sense without a view of human beings that is either religious or unreflectively inherited from religion. I argued this in the case of punishment on this forum last week.

                The endless conservative diatribes about "responsibility" are a good example. For most people this requires something like Free Will to support it. But free will is a religious doctrine. Evolutionary psychology just shows how little a role (if any) it plays in explanation our decisions and inclinations.

                I'm sorry Asher, but your claim to be a scientifically minded person is undermined by your mediaeval views. And you are the one that complains about how conservatives use old fashioned and unscientific beliefs to get at gays.
                Only feebs vote.

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                • #9
                  Re: Affirmative Action for Conservative Professors

                  Originally posted by Agathon
                  So why are the conservatives doing so badly. Well, for one thing it isn't clear that they are across the board. Economics departments have a profoundly right wing bias because the general trend in economics has been towards an increased role for markets and a decreased role for the state (I think that's currently on the turn though). In short, for some time the right have been winning the war of ideas in this discipline.
                  Perhaps thats because the facts indicate that markets usually perform better without state intervention?
                  Old posters never die.
                  They j.u.s.t..f..a..d..e...a...w...a...y....

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Agathon
                    As for Asher's comments: the fact that engineering professors attempt to pontificate on someone else's area of expertise is amusing. I certainly wouldn't pontificate on bridge building.
                    Who said anything about them doing anything with someone else's area of expertise?

                    They don't touch that crap. Which is why it's intellectually responsible. Both your side and BK's side in this argument is intellectually irresponsible as far as I'm concerned.

                    As I said, if you think anything other than that liberalism is the consensus because it is winning the war of ideas, you are promoting what is essentially a conspiracy theory.
                    You call this intellectually responsible? This is no worse than Christians pounding the bible and calling it absolute truth.
                    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                    • #11
                      I want to see more intellectual conservatives trying to support their ideologies. Group think is dangerous. I wouldn't know that more liberal policies are correct if I can't compare them to policies that are silly, stupid, inane, and failing.
                      To us, it is the BEAST.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Agathon
                        Conservative social policy makes little sense without a view of human beings that is either religious or unreflectively inherited from religion. I argued this in the case of punishment on this forum last week.

                        The endless conservative diatribes about "responsibility" are a good example. For most people this requires something like Free Will to support it. But free will is a religious doctrine. Evolutionary psychology just shows how little a role (if any) it plays in explanation our decisions and inclinations.

                        I'm sorry Asher, but your claim to be a scientifically minded person is undermined by your mediaeval views. And you are the one that complains about how conservatives use old fashioned and unscientific beliefs to get at gays.
                        I have no clue what you're talking about. What is "conservative social policy"? Again, this is a convenient pigeonhole you use. Does Belinda have a conservative social policy? Probably not, according to your viewpoint, yet she's running for which party again?

                        Conservatism does not equal religious, so if you're going to call that view "mediaeval", I'd wonder just what you're doing in the position of instructor of such things.
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                        • #13
                          Re: Re: Affirmative Action for Conservative Professors

                          Originally posted by Adam Smith
                          Perhaps thats because the facts indicate that markets usually perform better without state intervention?
                          And you're attacking me.. why?

                          As I said, I think they are beginning to see the error of their ways.
                          Only feebs vote.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Re: Affirmative Action for Conservative Professors

                            Originally posted by Adam Smith
                            Perhaps thats because the facts indicate that markets usually perform better without state intervention?
                            As long a they ignore Latin America and East Asia.
                            Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                            • #15
                              Asher is too dumb to see the obvious.

                              Responsibility requires free will, free will is at root a religious concept not a scientific one, ergo people who argue about responsibility all the time, the way the conservatives do are, wittingly or no, basing their belief on relgious doctrine.

                              There - even an ape could understand that - although I don't hold out much hope for you.
                              Only feebs vote.

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