Do rightwingers despise women?

[Bereta_Eder]

BTW libertarianists (or socialists for that matter) are a tiny minority here. Actually I doubt libertarianists even exist apart froma very short lived political party. The vast majority is either social democrats (or something to that effect) or conservatives (in the best case...).

[Berzerker]

TD -

So you agree with Bush's policy of strenthening the rights of unborn fetuses.

A baby is out of the woman's womb, a fetus is inside the womb.

That's a distinction many people don't buy into, a baby doesn't become human just because it has exited the womb. That requires people to believe that a few minutes or hours make the difference between humanity and whatever it is y'all think that baby is before leaving the womb. As for Bush and his intentions, I don't know. Many of his supporters certainly hope he does take steps in their desired direction...

Are you sure it is not so that the economy (the corporations) is taking over the state?

That's the complaint by many on the left, that when the Republicans get control the corporations gain more power (probably true, but you'll see the liberal Democrats doing their share of aiding big business). But no, I don't agree with your premise. Businesses "legally" bribe politicians and do so for ~2 reasons - to get favors (subsidies etc) including laws and regulations that hurt competitors or help themselves gain marketshare or reduce costs; and, to deter getting hurt by competitors who seek to harm them.

But the system has evolved into this because politicians have assumed more and more control over our lives. The biggest step toward this situation was the income tax and the fabricated power to re-distribute other people's money. Once Congress decided it could give me your money, all sorts of people from special interests to voters discovered they could legally rob their neighbors and the rush was on. Now the left that wants the state to have the power to re-distribute other people's money and treat us more like involuntary servants complain that corporations have too much power. During the 90's we came close to nationalising the health care industry, that's hardly an indicator that corporations are taking over the state.

Paiktis - Welcome

[Berzerker]

What are conservatives where you live?

[Bereta_Eder]

Well they are in favor of less state (hey I agree with that!), in favor of as little interference with the economy as possible, fewer regulations, less workers "protection laws" (flexible work market), curbing social welfare (although they don't dare say it out loud) etc. I think they are to an extend similar with the american Republicans. However there are some matters which don't constitute points of difference here as they do in the US such as guns which are forbidden or abortion which is legal because these are generally settled issues.

Perhaps the most definite difference of conservatives versus social democrats is the wish of the first for more and more privitizations, more liberization of the market etc.

In a cultural level conservatives are generally more "nation proud" although this is by no means a defining trend in them.

Historically speaking they are the "free markets" force of Greece in contrast with the social Democrats which historically were the "socialist" force of Greece. There had been huge clashes in the past (including a civil war and a dictatorship) and the right wing is somewhat "stigmatized" in the Greek left wing's eyes. The social democrats with all their changing (from socialists to social democrats) have ruled for almost 20 years uninteruppted apart from a 3 year period in the beggining of the '90s.

However, now with the elections coming up in March there are very good chances that the conservatives will win.

[Bereta_Eder]

Unemployment is high, corruption is rampant, prices have sky rocketed since the introduction of the euro, national healthcare suffers, education is nowhere near "free" (lots of money going to pay for private classes and so on) and frankly the people are fed up with the social democrats. If the conservatives (which BTW call themselves Phileleutheroi~Libertarians!) can convince the people that they will do a better job they have victory in their pocket. They've been leading polls for some time now.

However to their credit (?) social democrats have led the Greek economy to record highs in past years (second fastest growing economy in the EU), and did some minor modernization of the state. However everyday reality does not reflect that and people see it clearly.

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Businesses "legally" bribe politicians and do so for ~2 reasons - to get favors (subsidies etc) including laws and regulations that hurt competitors or help themselves gain marketshare or reduce costs; and, to deter getting hurt by competitors who seek to harm them.

This means that there is a fundamental flaw in the free market. The state is no longer there to ensure a 'level playingfield'. Instead the state is the umpire making more or less arbitrary decisions on behalf of this or that corporation.

So why not nationalize the whole deal? That would mean the end of taxes.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Japher
Having a child is a choice, not an accident... ever... unless it's a crime. It is a choice by two people.

I know at least 4 cases where the pregnancy was either an accident (forgotten pill), or the choice of one person. It is even possible I made my girlfriend pregnant (a fifth case), just before taking the day-after-pill.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I know at least 4 cases where the pregnancy was either an accident (forgotten pill), or the choice of one person. It is even possible I made my girlfriend pregnant (a fifth case), just before taking the day-after-pill.

he might be reffering to the idea of consenting to the risk.

ie. u want to have sex. even sex w/ birth control. then u must as adults consent to the risks involved.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by yavoon
ie. u want to have sex. even sex w/ birth control. then u must as adults consent to the risks involved.

Yep, we consent to taking the risk of aborting

[Berzerker]

Paiktis - conservatives there sound libertarian but how are they on social issues? We have 2 groups of conservatives here, one is libertarian and the other is rather autocratic on social issues (we call them social conservatives) and less free market oriented but not nearly as much as the liberal left.

TD -

This means that there is a fundamental flaw in the free market. The state is no longer there to ensure a 'level playingfield'. Instead the state is the umpire making more or less arbitrary decisions on behalf of this or that corporation.

That isn't a flaw with the free market, it's a flaw with the political system. It is illogical to blame the marketplace for the (bribed) actions of politicians.

So why not nationalize the whole deal? That would mean the end of taxes.

Huh?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Tripledoc


This means that there is a fundamental flaw in the free market. The state is no longer there to ensure a 'level playingfield'. Instead the state is the umpire making more or less arbitrary decisions on behalf of this or that corporation.

As Berzerker said, this is a result of income tax, not the free market.

[Ben Kenobi]

we consent to taking the risk of aborting

Who is we?

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Yep, we consent to taking the risk of aborting

if u can get the child to sign a release paper go for it dawg

[Berzerker]

Who is we?

Can't you hear the voices of them little babies asking to be aborted? Oops, age of consent precludes them from consenting to abortion before the age of 18 or 21.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Who is we?

Any couple to whom I spoke about it.