Rugby - We need a proper Title! (temp)

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Waikato in the NPC is the level below S12 then. And an NPC contract would be no barrier to us if we really wanted him I suspect.

Yes, but don't forget he also signed that very odd "contract to provide coaching services to the NZRFU for two years". I assume it was just a means of topping up his income to keep him in the country, but it exists. I can't see you getting him, frankly.

So who was the English club team he was supposed to have been talking to prior to him signing with Waikato? Or was that just a negotiating tool?

Mallinder is the incumbent at Sale and has done a reasonable job there – but he has had harsh things to say about Tigers in the past and unlikely to be a popular choice with the fans.

OTOH, it might be time for another outsider instead of another incestuous alliance.

How do they correct it do you think?

They seem to have two or three problems rolled into one. There's obviously an internal philosophical war going on - what is Springbok rugby?, how are we going to play the game? On top of that, there's a fairly obvious colour/race battle still going on, with the Old White School trying to hang in there. On top of which, the Rand is still buggered, meaning a half-decent contract anywhere else in the world is vastly more attractive than anything on offer at home. All up, I haven't got a clue what they're going to do. I see a vicious circle of contributing factors and no end in sight.

It’s getting silly – we could field a team of Boks from UK clubs that should on paper be a higher world ranking than the real article!

That's right. Even if the Rand were stronger, the situation at home is so putrid that anywhere else is more attractive. Why did Kriege retire from international rugby? He cited age and injuries. I think he certainly had a couple more very good years in him. He was caught in the middle of the turmoil and I suspect he'd had enough.

Strange thing humour. I think between us we have shown how subjective it is (though I still cannot believe you are not a Red Dwarf fan!).

As I've said before, I think it's my violently allergic reaction to anything remotely SF, even though "Red Dwarf" is hardly in the SF camp. Call it a measure of the violence of my allergy.

Unless there is some personal resonance with the primary concept of a series (e.g. Music Hall Irish Slapstick?) it doesn’t matter how hard the writers try – it will not grab you.

No, I can appreciate and admire good writing even if I don't like the concept. In other words, for me, the writing can transcend the concept. I just found the "Father Ted" writing cheap, obvious and heavy-handed. The big difference between "Father Ted" and "Black Books" was the input of Dylan Moran, whose trademark is slightly dark, nicely surreal humour. Moran's impact on his co-writer in "Black Books" probably parallels Ben Elton's impact on Richard Curtis and "Blackadder". Co-writing is essentially alchemy.

It does make me laugh – but perhaps the proof of your view lies in the fact that very few episodes stand up to repeated viewing (for me at least).

Yes well, apart from the slick, empty writing, perhaps my biggest problem with the series was that I wasn't remotely interested in the characters - a bunch of self-absorbed, apparently affluent Manhattan-ites. "Seinfeld", OTOH, working with basically the same character types, was a triumph of observational writing.

Speaking of which, has Larry David's (co-creator of "Seinfeld") series "Curb Your Enthusiasm" shown over there? It's an HBO series, so it would probably turn up on Channel 4 if anywhere. Larry David based "Seinfeld"'s George on himself. In "Curb Your Enthusiasm", he literally plays "himself" - one of life's victims, with no one to blame but himself. It's a truly wonderful series. Look out for it.

I suspect you may have a point there. But it is futile – ERC ltd will back the officials, what else could they do? Wasps are of course yet another club with a single owner and therefore like so many of the others like that (i.e every other club in the premiership) have lost some grasp on traditions and are subject to the whim of that owner. They won heavily and do not appear to have sustained any serious injuries in the game so I have to ask - what exactly is the point?

A similar thing happened in one or more of the WRC matches, I recall. It's petty. Unless, of course, the ref or the touchies have missed something nasty. Do you have video citing in League or HC matches?

Do you recall my outburst of anger in the RWC when
Eales was dragged onto TV to examine the (exclusively SH) truck and trailer allegations? It transpires Martin watched that and thought it both desperate and hilarious. Poor Ealesy he said, he sat there with this video of our intense 'wrong doing' being shown to him and finds nothing much wrong so have to makes such earth shattering comments ‘ooh, that’s a bit marginal’ and ‘ah, not too much wrong there’. As he is making these cutting observations the Video shows an Australian player flying in the side of a maul collapsing it (in what he hints is the traditional Australian manner) and there’s not a single comment on it from the TV pundits – after all it was a wattle shirt so it must have been legal.

He has a lot more to say on the RWC and I’m really enjoying the book - surprisingly enough. I must find out who ghosted it.

Any more of this bilge, and I'm going to be wondering what sort of commission you're on for flogging this tome.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
As I've said before, I think it's my violently allergic reaction to anything remotely SF, even though "Red Dwarf" is hardly in the SF camp. Call it a measure of the violence of my allergy.[/I]

Even with Paul Verhoeven's "Starship Troopers"?

A similar thing happened in one or more of the WRC matches, I recall. It's petty. Unless, of course, the ref or the touchies have missed something nasty.

Yes, they have!

Ask Jonno.

Do you have video citing in League or HC matches?

The television has perfectly shown what the touchies have not seen... Jonno trying to strangle Auradou with a single hand.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


Even with Paul Verhoeven's "Starship Troopers"?

:vomit:

Yes, they have!

Ask Jonno.



The television has perfectly shown what the touchies have not seen... Jonno trying to strangle Auradou with a single hand.

[Havak]

I can't see you getting him, frankly.

If we want him we’ll get him.

I believe he talked to Sale – a club he had played for in his time up here.

OTOH, it might be time for another outsider instead of another incestuous alliance.

Actually I agree with you – nepotism has it’s place in our club (once a Tiger always a Tiger) but you do need a fresh approach every now and then.

I’d much rather Mallet than mallinder though!

All up, I haven't got a clue what they're going to do. I see a vicious circle of contributing factors and no end in sight.

It’s all very sad actually – here’s hoping they find a solution that we have missed.

I think he certainly had a couple more very good years in him. He was caught in the middle of the turmoil and I suspect he'd had enough.

And his attitude was all wrong for an International Rugby skipper. I suspect he knew the new coach couldn’t have a biff merchant as skipper.

Moran's impact on his co-writer in "Black Books" probably parallels Ben Elton's impact on Richard Curtis and "Blackadder". Co-writing is essentially alchemy.

Interesting analogy. And more lead than gold results right?

Speaking of which, has Larry David's (co-creator of "Seinfeld") series "Curb Your Enthusiasm" shown over there?

I haven’t registered it on any terrestrial channel – but will keep an eye out for it following the recommendation thanks.

Do you have video citing in League or HC matches?

In the English League there is an independent citing official with access to video where available. The HC I’m not sure about – it’s run by a separate and quite independent body that is pretty much a rule unto itself (ERC Ltd). Maybe Tamerlin knows?

Any more of this bilge, and I'm going to be wondering what sort of commission you're on for
flogging this tome.

Why not read it and criticise me from a first hand perspective?

It seems Ealesy made all those damning comments that annoyed me before the studio rolled one second of video – and then found himself unable to prove anything. But then I never saw the show myself – did you?

The television has perfectly shown what the touchies have not seen... Jonno trying to strangle Auradou with a single hand.

Well you might have pleased Finbar but tell us who swung first Tamerlin? Take those rose tinted specs off. Auradou received his just deserts. He thought he was a lock of the physical stature of an RWC winning captain – he was wrong. Jonno often restrains morons trying to punch him by grasping them under the chin. It’s to Auradou’s shame he was held off with a single hand perhaps?

And Starship Troopers is remarkable for several reasons – being the Director’s first watchable effort since Totall Recall and also for pretty much ignoring the source novel (where MI wore environment battle suits and certainly didn’t use machine guns).

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
If we want him we’ll get him.

Not if the NZRFU don't want you to have him. Unless, of course, you're willing to pay out his NZRFU contract on top of the Waikato contract.

Interesting analogy. And more lead than gold results right?

On balance, probably. But it's interesting how putting the right person alongside someone with limited talent - Richard Curtis, the guy who co-wrote "Father Ted" - can produce something marvellous.

I haven’t registered it on any terrestrial channel – but will keep an eye out for it following the recommendation thanks.

I'll look into whether it's showing over there.

Why not read it and criticise me from a first hand perspective?

Life's too short to have to wade through what I'm sure is appalling ghostwriting.

It seems Ealesy made all those damning comments that annoyed me before the studio rolled one second of video – and then found himself unable to prove anything. But then I never saw the show myself – did you?

I saw the Neil Back unattached business. Eales narrated the video, pointing out the illegality.

Well you might have pleased Finbar but tell us who swung first Tamerlin?

Jeepers, what soft defence. I saw your Mr Hoon on TV tonight trying to claim that the "45 minutes notice" scenario wasn't a feature of the dossier, that it was a very minor matter in the business of reasons to go to war. I think you've spent too long with Mr Hoon.

And Starship Troopers is remarkable for several reasons – being the Director’s first watchable effort since Totall Recall and also for pretty much ignoring the source novel (where MI wore environment battle suits and certainly didn’t use machine guns).

I say again. :vomit:

BTW, I wrote a little tomato story today for my tomato growing friends in another forum I haunt:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg0220472518184.html?6

For the uninitiated, heirloom tomatoes, being self-pollenating, are, technically, both male and female. Thus I adopted the strictly politically correct gender nomenclature.

[finbar]

They showed the entire second series of "Curb Your Enthusiasm" on one night on BBC4 back in January:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/curb/

So at least now we know who has the series over there.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Well you might have pleased Finbar but tell us who swung first Tamerlin? Take those rose tinted specs off. Auradou received his just deserts.

I can't tell you who started, there are things you can see when you are at the Stadium and that you don't see when you are watching the game on TV. But I also remember a punch attempt by Neil Back, a French player was red carded in another game because he mocked a head butt, Neil Back really tried to hit the forward in front of him. I also remember some stupid gestures from the Parisians, there were not really dangerous... but should have been sanctionned.

And Starship Troopers is remarkable for several reasons – being the Director’s first watchable effort since Totall Recall and also for pretty much ignoring the source novel (where MI wore environment battle suits and certainly didn’t use machine guns).

Though different, the book is equally good IMO.

[Havak]

Not if the NZRFU don't want you to have him. Unless, of course, you're willing to pay out his NZRFU contract on top of the Waikato contract.

I was suggesting that the NZRFU lacks the financial clout to stop the English taking anyone they want to Finbar. And that’s true. Of course it neatly ignores that Tigers do not have access to the RFU coffers.

But it's interesting how putting the right person alongside someone with limited talent - Richard Curtis, the guy who co-wrote "Father Ted" - can produce something marvellous.

As I know to my cost from seeing plank alongside Eales in 91.

Actually that’s a little unfair now – I think in the RWC Justin was by far the most effective lock you fielded? The best he has been post Lions certainly. How is he settling in at the new franchise?

Life's too short to have to wade through what I'm sure is appalling ghostwriting.

Some of it is – the RWC stuff must have been written based on an interview on the way back, it drifts all over the place.

I saw the Neil Back unattached business. Eales narrated the video, pointing out the illegality.

Been there, done this. He was never unattached and it was never illegal as far as I am concerned. You even quoted the law about disconnecting I recall - but frankly penalising a guy for changing hands is the type of pedantry the NH gets wrongly accused of.

Someone really should teach the SH nations the concept of “fair go” so that they realise that where they get slack on field position (offside? What is that sir?) we get it on mauling. But then we both know that whatever the Wallabies cannot do, or cannot counter, will always get this kind of attention down there. Shame on Eales for being used in silly propaganda. Leave that to Clive and Eddie.

I think you've spent too long with Mr Hoon.

Whats to defend – Jonno stopped someone punching him by holding them at arms length. If the lad cannot cope with that what is he doing playing rugby?

As for the Defence muppet I detest the weasel and could not share a room for long. The latest gem seems to be that he is deflecting blame from Blair on WMD by claiming he never explained to the PM 45 mins was for battlefield and not strategic options. To me this is revisionist bull – both thought it meant strategic or I am a monkeys uncle (actually I am but that’s a different story…)

Nice creative tomato piece by the way Finbar.

BBC4??? I have access to it but I honestly do not think I have ever switched it on. Looks like I may have to change on that one.

But I also remember a punch attempt by Neil Back, a French player was red carded in another game because he mocked a head butt, Neil Back really tried to hit the forward in front of him

As Finbar will remind us it all comes down to the ref concerned. I didn’t see Backy swing. He should know better – but then show me someone who thinks forwards don’t fight regularly, even in the Professional era, and I’ll show you someone quite deluded.

Last Friday was an edgy match all round. Remember we humiliated SF in their own back yard in 2001 and they wanted revenge. At one point the SF number 8 entered one of our mauls from our side and tried to pull players out (the crap paddy ref was not doing anything about offsides) and he was very savagely thrown to the ground. Did that bother me – not at all given he had no business being where he was.

The book I enjoyed – but the DVD blows your mind on my widescreen ‘home cinema’ setup – “Give it up. Everything you got”. Could Finbar write lines like that I ask you?

[flipside]

Originally posted by finbar
As I've said before, I think it's my violently allergic reaction to anything remotely SF

Have you read any of the Iain. M. Banks "Culture" series? If you have and still cannot stand SF, I would say that nothing can cure your allergy.

EDIT: I personally don't like SF, other than this.
Or fantasy. I do like detective novels though. Sorry.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak

The book I enjoyed – but the DVD blows your mind on my widescreen ‘home cinema’ setup – “Give it up. Everything you got”. Could Finbar write lines like that I ask you?

- Come on you apes, you wanna live forever?

[Havak]

Rasczak's Roughnecks. aka the Apes.

You are a chap of varied taste Tamerlin.

Oh and remember your dislike of Gimli being comic relief - in the extended TT DVD it gets even worse - more horse nonsense.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Rasczak's Roughnecks. aka the Apes.

Though it might sound weird I would rate "Starship Troopers" among the top 10 movies I have ever seen. I think that Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" is almost the first SF book I have ever read. I have since grown up with Larry Niven's "Ringworld", Vance's "Alastor" or "Tschaï's Cycle", C.J. Cherry's "Space Opera"... and Star Trek: the Next Generation.

I really love Science Fiction though I really hate the Star Wars trend with those F****** Ewoks and other "for the tadpoles" b***s***s... to sum up it all I really don't like the Lucas kind of movies. puke:

You are a chap of varied taste Tamerlin.

It does not prevent me to rate "The cat on a hot tin roof" as the greatest movie I have ever seen.

Oh and remember your dislike of Gimli being comic relief - in the extended TT DVD it gets even worse - more horse nonsense.

To spare me some money and some time I have seen the three movies, including the extended versions of the two first episodes, the same day. I had only seen the "short" version of the first episode before this day.



If you have not yet seen "Lost in Translation", pick the nearest movie theater and run for it.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
I was suggesting that the NZRFU lacks the financial clout to stop the English taking anyone they want to Finbar. And that’s true.

Except when contracts are in place. And paying out a contract is only an option when all parties agree to same.

Of course it neatly ignores that Tigers do not have access to the RFU coffers.

Well, yes. See also above.

Actually that’s a little unfair now – I think in the RWC Justin was by far the most effective lock you fielded? The best he has been post Lions certainly. How is he settling in at the new franchise?

He sounds happy and the Waratahs sound happy. He's being given more responsibility, which will be good for him. He has already tipped a couple of big buckets on David Nucifora, his Brumbies coach, saying, amongst other things, it's difficult for a team to play good rugby under a coach who hasn't got a clue what he's talking about. I reported last season that there were problems in the Brumbies camp - I suspect Plank wasn't the only one at odds with Nucifora.

Been there, done this. He was never unattached and it was never illegal as far as I am concerned. You even quoted the law about disconnecting I recall - but frankly penalising a guy for changing hands is the type of pedantry the NH gets wrongly accused of.

Nuh, it was more than just changing hands. He often had one hand resting on the back of the player in front of him while he watched and waited for his chance to dart off. That is not bound, and that's what Eales pointed out.

Someone really should teach the SH nations the concept of “fair go” so that they realise that where they get slack on field position (offside? What is that sir?) we get it on mauling.

Mmmm. As in your players taking a casual stroll around to the wrong side of the ruck to impede the defence.

As for the Defence muppet I detest the weasel and could not share a room for long. The latest gem seems to be that he is deflecting blame from Blair on WMD by claiming he never explained to the PM 45 mins was for battlefield and not strategic options. To me this is revisionist bull – both thought it meant strategic or I am a monkeys uncle (actually I am but that’s a different story…)

Of course it's revisionist bull. They're now inventing on the run. And for Blair to admit - or claim - that he didn't know what the 45 minutes referred to?

Nice creative tomato piece by the way Finbar.

Nice tomato, too!

BBC4??? I have access to it but I honestly do not think I have ever switched it on. Looks like I may have to change on that one.

I checked out the BBC4 programme guide. I'm not sure that a lot of their stuff would be your cuppa. But they're bound to repeat the Larry David series. It's a piece of comic genius. Largely unscripted, too. He writes a rough story outline, then breaks it into rough scenes without dialogue. He just indicates what should happen in the scene between the characters. From there, it's improv. Which only works when you have very talented actors, which these ones are. A lot of them have stand-up comedy backgrounds.

I didn’t see Backy swing. He should know better – but then show me someone who thinks forwards don’t fight regularly, even in the Professional era, and I’ll show you someone quite deluded.

In horseracing parlance - Havak: by Alastair Campbell out of Geoff Hoon.

The book I enjoyed – but the DVD blows your mind on my widescreen ‘home cinema’ setup – “Give it up. Everything you got”. Could Finbar write lines like that I ask you?

I suppose I could if I lobotomised myself first.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


Though it might sound weird I would rate "Starship Troopers" among the top 10 movies I have ever seen. I think that Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" is almost the first SF book I have ever read. I have since grown up with Larry Niven's "Ringworld", Vance's "Alastor" or "Tschaï's Cycle", C.J. Cherry's "Space Opera"... and Star Trek: the Next Generation.

I really love Science Fiction though I really hate the Star Wars trend with those F****** Ewoks and other "for the tadpoles" b***s***s... to sum up it all I really don't like the Lucas kind of movies. puke:

Stop polluting the ether with all this SF bullsh*t!

It does not prevent me to rate "The cat on a hot tin roof" as the greatest movie I have ever seen.

And that's nonsense too!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
And that's nonsense too!

I can't believe you have not liked this masterpiece inspired by a Tennessee Williams play.