What do you think is the baddest ass piece of military hardware?

[Joseph]

Originally posted by The Vagabond


Why should I believe the History Channel? The History Channel just stupidly repeats the numbers that are considered common knowledge in the West. These numbers were first mentioned in the 1950s, and it was not a result of a serious study, but rather of a wild and irresponsible guess. And this has been repeated over and over since then. Apparently the West was happy to cling to it, as it was a good propagandistic tool during the Cold War.

I think I found part of your problem with the numbers. You are thinking short term as in WWII. Stalin took power in 1929 and remain in power until his dead in 1953. Over a period of 24 year he kill some 30 million or so people. These people were his own Soviet people, not outsider. Hitler killed 14 or so million that were not German. I'm not counting the war dead.
Did you know that he hated the Russian people. Remember Stalin is Georgian, and maybe he had a thing against Russian.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by laurentius
Vagabond, did you just say earlier that you could have demanded big bucks from the baltic countries? Are you serious? You were occupying them for decades! They should have got reparations from you! Just how bully can russians be?

I meant to demand big bucks from the West for our strategic withdrawl. And they would have paid. Nevertheless, we withdrew as an act of good will. This was partly due to the feeling of guilt which sprung as we were discovering a larger picture of what was going on in the world, and partly due to the innate altruism of the Russian soul.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Joseph
I think I found part of your problem with the numbers. You are thinking short term as in WWII. Stalin took power in 1929 and remain in power until his dead in 1953. Over a period of 24 year he kill some 30 million or so people.

OK, let's see. 30 million killed by Stalin, about 30 million killed in WWII, about 7 million during the Russian civil war (1918-1921). Does this mean that about a half of the population of the Russian Empire/Soviet Union were killed?? This is nonsense.

Did you know that he hated the Russian people. Remember Stalin is Georgian, and maybe he had a thing against Russian.

I don't believe he hated the Russian people. He was not a nationalist or xenophobe. He was simply a paranoid maniac.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by The Vagabond


OK, let's see. 30 million killed by Stalin, about 30 million killed in WWII, about 7 million during the Russian civil war (1918-1921). Does this mean that about a half of the population of the Russian Empire/Soviet Union were killed?? This is nonsense.



I don't believe he hated the Russian people. He was not a nationalist or xenophobe. He was simply a paranoid maniac.

The history channel report said otherwise. On the report they talk to a fromer KGB person that served under Stalin. His section was one of the section that had to come up with list of peope to kill. He told the reporter that one time they turn in a list of a few hundred people to be killed and Stalin told him to add more name. He then said we went back to our office and just started to go through name of people and add them. If we did not Stalin would have kill me and my staff, so we did it. Most of the people on this list was guilty of living and nothing more and they had not commited any crimes against the Soviet Government or other people.
Being proud of ones country is not bad, but denial of what it's Government can or would do, or what a dictator or leader would do if they had the change is wrong.
I worked for the US Government for 33 years. I do not trust the US Government or any of my elected official.
I saw a lot while I worked for them, and I know what they will do if they have to, to cover up for someone or something. They will turn on you in an instant and make you look like an a$$ hole even though you did nothing wrong.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Joseph
Being proud of ones country is not bad, but denial of what it's Government can or would do, or what a dictator or leader would do if they had the change is wrong.

What denial are you talking about? I don't deny anything. I just don't believe/trust the crazy numbers you are citing.

I worked for the US Government for 33 years. I do not trust the US Government or any of my elected official.

What the hell does this all have to do with trusting the goverment?? I don't trust any government in particular, and not the Russian one. Furthermore, the Russian Government didn't come up with any "official" number for that. The official number of the Soviet citizens killed during WWII is 27 million. However, no such number was officially named for repression victims.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by The Vagabond


What denial are you talking about? I don't deny anything. I just don't believe/trust the crazy numbers you are citing.



What the hell does this all have to do with trusting the goverment?? I don't trust any government in particular, and not the Russian one. Furthermore, the Russian Government didn't come up with any "official" number for that. The official number of the Soviet citizens killed during WWII is 27 million. However, no such number was officially named for repression victims.

The 30 million were before and after the war. Well maybe some during the war.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Tingkai, nobody here has painted the Nazi's as anything but despicable, we are just stating the fact that the Soviets are worse.

Did the Soviets start WWII? No.

Who is responsible for the 40 million people killed in Europe during WWII? The Germans/Nazis.

Originally posted by Patroklos
And although we can't fathom why someone would believe in Nazism, if they did in fact believe truly then they can fight for it with distinction, bravery and heroism like any other cause.

So you think the Gestapo were brave? Do you think the ordinary German soldiers who murdered their way across Europe were brave?

Where is the bravery in killing unarmed civillians? Where is the bravery in walking up to someone and shooting them dead?

German soldiers, both Army and SS, routinely murdered people for sport. They killed babies, they killed the elderley, they killed young and old. They raped women. They enslaved others. They tortured people just for the hell of it. And then there were the concentration camps. Millions murdered.

There was nothing brave in what the Nazis did and anyone who thinks they were brave needs to read about the history of WWII.

[Kuciwalker]

:threadjack:

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Did the Soviets start WWII? No.

Well..... The Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact of 1939 gave Germany the green light to invade Poland just before the war started and allowed for its partition.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Tingkai

German soldiers, both Army and SS, routinely murdered people for sport. They killed babies, they killed the elderley, they killed young and old. They raped women. They enslaved others. They tortured people just for the hell of it. And then there were the concentration camps. Millions murdered.

There was nothing brave in what the Nazis did and anyone who thinks they were brave needs to read about the history of WWII.

Give me a good source, professor.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Tingkai

Did the Soviets start WWII? No.

Who is responsible for the 40 million people killed in Europe during WWII? The Germans/Nazis.



So you think the Gestapo were brave? Do you think the ordinary German soldiers who murdered their way across Europe were brave?

Where is the bravery in killing unarmed civillians? Where is the bravery in walking up to someone and shooting them dead?

German soldiers, both Army and SS, routinely murdered people for sport. They killed babies, they killed the elderley, they killed young and old. They raped women. They enslaved others. They tortured people just for the hell of it. And then there were the concentration camps. Millions murdered.

There was nothing brave in what the Nazis did and anyone who thinks they were brave needs to read about the history of WWII.

The Soviets participated in carving up Poland. wAsn't that the start of the war?

[laurentius]

Soviets attacked Finland 1939. And lost

[Serb]

We won actually.

[Serb]

Originally posted by TCO


The Soviets participated in carving up Poland. wAsn't that the start of the war?

No. Please remind me when GB and France declared war on USSR for that?
Brits and French responsible for Germany growing strong. When Hitler clearly violated terms of Versales treaty by re-militatarization of Rhein land, they just turned away and whistle. They let him grab Austria nad Suddets, they made him strong, they didn't stop him, because they need him to destroy the Soviet Union. Soviets had no choice, allies turned away from them after Munchen. So, when anyone says that USSR started WW2 by tacking back lands that Poland took from Soviets in 20's, I laugh.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Vince278


Well..... The Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact of 1939 gave Germany the green light to invade Poland just before the war started and allowed for its partition.

Before that, Brits and French gave him green light to re-militarize Rheinland, to grab Austria and Czechoslovakia, btw "poor, innocent" Poland was pretty happy about partition of Czechoslavakia. Guess why?