France bans religious symbols in schools and hospitals.

[DAVOUT]

Does freedom of religion apply to polygamy ?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
No, before the last election, Chirac was President, but the Socialists under Jospin and Raffarin were in charge of the legislature. The last election saw the Gaullist parties take control.

Raffarin is Chirac's servant. He's belonged to the right-wing during his whole political carreer, and he's the incarnation of the established non-Parisian bourgeoisie.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
IIRC the Great Terror was supposed to have taken somewhere around one half million lives.

Yes, and quite a few priests have died in the Terror. But it is hard to tell if these many people are victims of the political assassinations of the Terror alone, or if there are also the victims of the civil war (between the Vendée and the Republican forces) and of the international war included.

However, these massacres have more to do with the climate of general histeria at the time than a fundamental dislike of French people for religion. As a matter of fact, priests who pledged to the Revolution were civil servants, they were paid by the State.

[Spiffor]

Re: Re: France bans religious symbols in schools and hospitals.

Originally posted by Zkribbler
So let me get this straight . . small religious symbols--which are worn by Christians--are okay. But headgear like headscarves and skullcaps--neither of which are worn by Christians--are banned. Hmm, I wonder what the message is here.

Christians are forbidden to wear obviously seeable religious symbols in public schools exactly the same way as Muslims, Jews, or Buddhists, or whatever... There is no religious obligation by the Christians to wear obvious signs, so more power to them. But it means a kid does not have the right to come at school with a "Jesus rules" T-shirt, nor is he allowed to wear a large cross as a pendant like the Sisters are wearing.

Besides, small symbols of whatever religion are allowed. Discrete pendants of David's Star, of the moon crescent, or of the cross, are allowed.

[Ned]

What a kid went to school with anti-religious symbols, such as, a T-shirt with the words, "Jesus Sucks."

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Mazarin
well...if I see that something obviously goes extremely wrong (like the mentioned uprise of islamism in western Europe), then yes, I really think something has to be done. Simply ignoring the problem and putting the most obvious crimes to court (the greatest part -like violence at home remains hidden in most cases) is not enough for me. If freedom of religion implies letting children grow in an athmosphere where they are indoctrinated to disregard the most essential values of the society they live in -I'm willing to watch at my concept of religious freedom and expand it to "freedom to chose ones religion". It is not an easy question, but you sometimes need to have a closer look when one fundamental right is hurting another (to take one extreme example: If a religion implies cannibalistic rituals -am I going to do something against it or am I going to wait until the rituals have been performed and judge the participants according to laws). Freedoms of one person can be limiting the freedoms of others: giving up the freedom of wearing religious signs at school seems like a good deal when spreading freedom of choice, equality and free thought. in my book, at least.

the free choice to not wear religious clothes. the free thot to not think about ppl wearing religious clothes and the equality that everyone's freedoms are infringed at an equal level!

france is truly a great bastion of freedom.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Sava
Not that one thing has anything to do with another, but the United States is the only Industrialized nation to have school prayer in public schools

No you're not.

Pater imon, o en tis ouranis,
agiasthito to onoma sou,
eltheto i vasilia sou,
gennithito to thelima sou,
os en ourano kai epi tis gis.
Ton arton imon ton epiousion
dos imin simeron
kai afes imin ta ofilimata imon,
os kai imis afieme tis ofiletis imon,
kai mi isenegis imas is pirasmon,
alla risse imas apo tou ponirou.
Amin.


*cross* (yawn) *cross* (yawn) *cross*

Ok pupils, to your classes in good order

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
What a kid went to school with anti-religious symbols, such as, a T-shirt with the words, "Jesus Sucks."

It is banned as well.

[TheStinger]

In the UK there is supposed to be an act of worship every morning I believe it is not enforced. Although church schools will do it anyway.

Then again our fabulous system has the head of state also head of their own religion with the head of govt making decsions on who should be the top clergyman.

[Solly]

I said the Lord's Prayer every weeks until I was eleven, and I went to a state school. Who gives a stuff..

[Kuciwalker]

It seems the position of (at least some of) those France-supporters here is "they could grow up having beliefs we don't like extremist beliefs, so we have to ban symbols of those beliefs"

Does anyone else see the blatant hypocrisy there?

[Shi Huangdi]

Absolutley and totally disgusting. Now, if you are religious Jew or Moslem, you cannot practice your faith and attend normal schools, schools which your community is paying taxes towards. France has forgotten the first part of "Liberte, Fraternite, Egalite" and cannot anymore be considered a tolerant country.

[DAVOUT]

I fail to see where the hypocrisy is; we dont like extremist beliefs to the point that we make a law limiting their expression in a limited number of circumstances. I hope that an hypocrit attempt would not have provoked so many reactions. We possibly are wrong, but in this case not hypocrit.

[LDiCesare]

I just want to point out that the law is not (yet?) voted.

I think one of the big cultural differences between France and other countries is that we tend to view religion as a private matter, and as such, any outward sign of religion is seen as proselytism.
I think that the law should state that religious symbols which hinder either education or treatment should be removed, respectively at school and at hospital.
This would force people to remove scarves to go swimming, which is sensible, and swimming can save one's life, yours or someone else's, so it must be taught. Same goes for hospital. The point is that if a patient refuses to be healed for religious reasons, the responsibility is his instead of the doctor's, as Spiffor already explained.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
I just want to point out that the law is not (yet?) voted.

I think one of the big cultural differences between France and other countries is that we tend to view religion as a private matter, and as such, any outward sign of religion is seen as proselytism.

A view of religion that doesnt make sense for traditional Islam or Judaism. Which are by their nature social religions.

But, ok, its your culture I suppose.


One of the big cultural difference between the US and Europe is that we view murderers as forfeiting their right to life, and we see the death penalty as a legitimate tool of the state. Now can you guys respect our culture?