France bans religious symbols in schools and hospitals.

[Shi Huangdi]

I love how Europeans, when questioned about a policy they have, always run and cry "BUT THE USA DOES X!" Shows EUropeans unable to discuss their problems or handle criticisms of them. Looks bad for Europe if all they can do when confronted with a problem is spout some hyperbole about the US.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
and please note that in a Muslim nation such as Turkey, similar bans are in place.

Ive never cited Turkey as an example of western liberal tolerance (though its still a democracy, of course). Its an aggressively secularist regime, that has taken illiberal actions against Islam. With the result that there is a growing Islamist movement in Turkey.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Azazel

You mean, if France did what the US is doing in Guantanomo?

Troll.


we now resume our regular programming.

Ah, let them troll. With Saddam caught, hundreds of Fedayeen caught or killed in Iraq, and with Libya giving up WMD's they've had a bad week. I can understand the grouchiness.

[Saint Marcus]

Troll.

Yup

I love how Europeans, when questioned about a policy they have, always run and cry "BUT THE USA DOES X!" Shows EUropeans unable to discuss their problems or handle criticisms of them. Looks bad for Europe if all they can do when confronted with a problem is spout some hyperbole about the US.

change it around and it still applies.

They are PUBLIC schools, paid for by public money, and if the governement elected by the public, supported by the public, calls for a ban on all (not just Muslim) overt religious symbols in PUBLIC schools, then it is their every right to do so. It's a democracy, after all.

[Saint Marcus]

Ah, let them troll. With Saddam caught, hundreds of Fedayeen caught or killed in Iraq, and with Libya giving up WMD's they've had a bad week. I can understand the grouchiness.

ah well, we had our fun. And knowing you guys, it won't take long before something else goes horribly wrong. Enjoy this while it lasts.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus


Yup



change it around and it still applies.

They are PUBLIC schools, paid for by public money, and if the governement elected by the public, supported by the public, calls for a ban on all (not just Muslim) overt religious symbols in PUBLIC schools, then it is their every right to do so. It's a democracy, after all.

Its certainly their right to do it - i hope i have not led anyone to believe I think its not their right to do it. But it may not be good public policy, and it certainly isnt a liberal tolerant approach, and it does call into question France's claiming of a moral highground to criticize internal policies of the United States.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus


ah well, we had our fun. And knowing you guys, it won't take long before something else goes horribly wrong. Enjoy this while it lasts.

Oh theres certain to be bad weeks, and few as good as this one - to which I might add the French-German surrender -oops I meant compromise - on Iraqi debts.

Now joined by Russia

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3341221.stm

[Saint Marcus]

personally, I was all for giving up on the debts. Not just for Iraq though, but for most Third World nations.

[Imran Siddiqui]

the United States is the only Industrialized nation to have school prayer in public schools

School prayer is strictly forbidden in public schools according to the SCOTUS.

As for cutting out extremism. Isn't there the doctrine of innocent until proven guilty. Yes, these families may have values that go against Constitutional rights, but don't they have the right to protest those 'rights'? Unless they do something against the Constitution, how can you punish them?

Like said above, this is just sweeping things under the rug.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
I fail to see where the hypocrisy is; we dont like extremist beliefs to the point that we make a law limiting their expression in a limited number of circumstances. I hope that an hypocrit attempt would not have provoked so many reactions. We possibly are wrong, but in this case not hypocrit.

Trying to prevent people from believing what you don't like (in this case, "extremist" beliefs) is pure hypocrisy. Why can't they prevent people from believing what they don't like?

[Az]

because they're wrong and we're right. duh.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Wearing the skullcap/headscarf are both nessecary actions that are required by their respective faiths

Now that many Jewish students have suffered physical or verbal agressions in France, it has suddenly become religiously OK to wear anything on your head according to the French Jewish school directors, skullcaps merely covering the minimal required surface.

BTW, I'd like you to quote the Coran on the religious obligation to wear a scarf. I'm listening.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Now that many Jewish students have suffered physical or verbal agressions in France, it has suddenly become religiously OK to wear anything on your head according to the French Jewish school directors, skullcaps merely covering the minimal required surface.

BTW, I'd like you to quote the Coran on the religious obligation to wear a scarf. I'm listening.

Its always been okay under jewish law to wear anything your head, as long as the minimum area is covered. (for some ultraOrthodox Jews customs to wear more specific headcoverings have almost the force of law, but i doubt any of them attend French public schools anyway) I guess theres some confusion about how the law applies to Jewish headcoverings. Will Jewish males be allowed to wear say baseball caps in French schools??? Will Islamic girls be allowed to completelty cover their hair, as long as they dont use specifically Islamic fashions to do it?

[Az]

Actually, I am not aware of any jewish commandment requiring to wear a skullcap ( kipa sounds much better, btw. )

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Will Jewish males be allowed to wear say baseball caps in French schools??? Will Islamic girls be allowed to completelty cover their hair, as long as they dont use specifically Islamic fashions to do it?

Although this is unlikely, this will most probably depend on the teacher.
In general, teachers like to have uncovered students in front of them, but they can individually decide to tolerate it from religious people, rather than ratting them out or force them to uncover.

Unlike blatant religious fashions, "ordinary" head-covering fascions can only be a problem in the classroom, as it cannot be detected in recess yard. Hence, the treatment of it will widely vary accordiing to the teachers.

I think there is no law against head covers, but there is likely to be a rule in internal reglementations.