Has the time come for a revived CSA?

[PLATO]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


On racism, I clearly have more perspective than you. A) I worked for anti-racist groups for over a decade, B) a majority of my family is Black, and I can see how they are treated differently, C) I lived in a neighborhood where Black people were shot at and firebombed by white racists, D) I lived in a Black neighborhood where the cops would randomly harrass everyone but me (being the only white person, E) I notice how I get treated differently when I'm alone or with Black or Hispanic folks, F) I watch my friends get followed in stores, G) I listen to people tell me about crap that happens to them.

Whoa. Che...man...

You know its not like that everywhere I know, but still...wow. You win that side of the perspective battle for sure.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


On racism, I clearly have more perspective than you. A) I worked for anti-racist groups for over a decade, B) a majority of my family is Black, and I can see how they are treated differently, C) I lived in a neighborhood where Black people were shot at and firebombed by white racists, D) I lived in a Black neighborhood where the cops would randomly harrass everyone but me (being the only white person, E) I notice how I get treated differently when I'm alone or with Black or Hispanic folks, F) I watch my friends get followed in stores, G) I listen to people tell me about crap that happens to them.

You're not following the conventional outline format using Roman numerals, letters and so on.

[Patroklos]

Che

A) Good for you for working for anti-racist gorups, I wouldn't mind a name though. My church is an anti-racist group and I have been working for them for years but don't claim some god like perspective because of it. And if you group is like some I know, perspective is the last thing they offer.
B)If the majority of your family is black than how do you claim to have any perspective on how a mostly white family sees things.
C)I live in a neighboorhood where white kids are beaten regularly by black gangs, and visa versa. I attest this to class more than anything else, but I could start thinking in terms of only race like you and call it racist.
D) Doubtful you are the only one, and though I can't say your are wrong on this becasue I don't live there, police brutality is the most overexagerated thing. I would attest that to class as well. I might even be inclined to get you an article on that after exams are over.
E) I have friends get followed in stores too. I attest it to them bieng obnoxious and looking like hoodlums, but maybe it is becasue the security is racist against white people. Security follow people, man don't they no they are not supposed to be taking their job seriously. Maybe you are just parinoid.
D) You listen to people, a good trait, but from you list above aparrently it is mostly black people, so where is the perspective?

As far as you list, all that shows is the only perspective you have is that of the oppressed blackman squarely under the toe of the white jackboot. Granted my perspective is only from the middleclass military background, but I bet I meet a larger variety of people doing my job than you ever will. Tony, a 31 year old black LDO from Atlanta thinks your full of it, and JP, a 32 year old ENS from Dallas Texas (he is Hispanic) thinks we are both full of it. But then again, I don't claim to have a greater perspective than you, just a different one.

BTW, sence you consider race to be paramount it wouldn't suprise me if you saw what you wanted in the events of your everyday life. You project racism onto things that could easily be from something else. I do not see racism in everything, but then again I am predisposed not to because I do not consider it to be such an overriding factor. So in all reality we are both projecting what we believe, and the truth is probobly somewhere in the middle. But that is just my perspective

-Pat

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by PLATO


Whoa. Che...man...

You know its not like that everywhere I know, but still...wow. You win that side of the perspective battle for sure.

I left stuff out too. I try not to bring it up, cuz I don't want to seem like I'm trying to swing my cheney around. I dunno. I honestly don't think my perspective has done much but let me see glimpses of other sides. Ultimately, we can never walk a mile in another man's shoes.

Personal experience is a valid starting point, but I don't think it should stand in place of the argument. What I'm trying to say is, I'm not right because I have the perspective. I think there's a correlation. If I didn't have the perspective, I might not be as willing to learn or overcome the racism I learned growing up (not from my folks but just the crap that kids learn). If I wasn't willing to learn, I probably would never have gained perspective.

A friend once said to me, "You love us Black people." My smartass self was like, "No I don't. I hate you just as much as I hate white people."

Most of us can live our whole lives without having to deal with or experience oppression. We're lucky, priveleged that way. If we have friends of another race, we might see one or two things that happen to them, and "I can't believe what that ******* said/did" etc. It seems like a few bad apples. You can intersect in a major way with people of other groups, and you begin to get a sense of what they have to put up with, even from well-meaning people who are patronizing as ****.

And then you can live the life, which we'll never be able to do. We don't have to put up with the little slights, the frequent indignities, the cluelessness of our coworkers, friends, etc., and keep our cool. I couldn't do it. I barely keep my temper when **** happens to Bunnygrrl, and it's really only time and distance that has kept me from seperating a few jerks from their faces.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MrFun
You're not following the conventional outline format using Roman numerals, letters and so on.

It wasn't an outline, nor do I pretend to be an academic. You're gonna have to try hard than that, Fun.

[Mellian]

I am not to fond of United States of America, but not exactly interested for the country to split up into smaller countries with each their own nukes.

-mellian

[Patroklos]

Messed that up edit is above.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by PLATO
You know its not like that everywhere

Yes I do. It's like a bad smell. At first, you can't stand it. It really iritates you and you comment on it. After a while though, you don't notice it anymore. It's become part of the normal background, and you litterally can no longer smell it.

Racism is kinda like that. Southerners have a harder time seeing their own racism, because it's part of the background. It's as normal as air. The same goes for the North. But because it's different in both places, each region can see the racism in the other quite clearly. I try not to bash the South, but it's that whole denial thing.

The truth is, the South has come a lot further than Northerns give it credit for. It's come much farther than the North in addressing its racism. But it also had a lot further to go, and so it really isn't much better than the North, but it is a little.

[TCO]

I am now totally bored by this thread. Ming close it and redirect people to my "non-serious" thread.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Patroklos
BTW, sence you consider race to be paramount . . .

-Pat

You're making an asumption here. I consider race to be paramount when it comes to the majority of oppression that minorities as a whole face. However, I consider class to be paramount. But class and race don't cancel each other out. They combine. The Black working class gets it worse the the white worknig class. Hell, I'll go further. Class oppression is the reason for race oppression. If workers are divided by race, it makes them that much easier to exploit. Studies have shown that where race oppression is greatest, the class divide is also greatest. But this doesn't take away from oppression on account of race, especially since we live in a country that tries is damdest to pretend class doesn't exist.

[Patroklos]

Spoken like a true commie, have you been awarded the Hero of the Soviet Union yet?

-Pat

[MrFun]

Originally posted by TCO
I am now totally bored by this thread. Ming close it and redirect people to my "non-serious" thread.

Who died and made you Queen of Obnoxiousness.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Yes I do. It's like a bad smell. At first, you can't stand it. It really iritates you and you comment on it. After a while though, you don't notice it anymore. It's become part of the normal background, and you litterally can no longer smell it.

Racism is kinda like that. Southerners have a harder time seeing their own racism, because it's part of the background. It's as normal as air. The same goes for the North. But because it's different in both places, each region can see the racism in the other quite clearly. I try not to bash the South, but it's that whole denial thing.

The truth is, the South has come a lot further than Northerns give it credit for. It's come much farther than the North in addressing its racism. But it also had a lot further to go, and so it really isn't much better than the North, but it is a little.

I believe that many more whites in the South listened to Dr. King than whites in the north. Far more in the South do I see Southerners judging a man by the content of his character than the color of his skin than I see that in the north. Maybe it was collective guilt...maybe they just saw the problem more clearly. In any event, I agree...the South now may have less of a racial problem then the north.

However, to stay on the original thread topic, the time is fast approaching for an independent South. Value systems between the north and South are widening to gulfs not seen since the War of northern Aggression (Civil War to you Yankees).

[Patroklos]

Yeah but our economic dependancy on each other has never been better. Basically, if any one state were remomeved from the country, the market would crash. That is one reason why Yugolsavia is had such a hard tim after the breakup, no one state had a complete infrustructure.

-Pat

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Yeah but our economic dependancy on each other has never been better. Basically, if any one state were remomeved from the country, the market would crash. That is one reason why Yugolsavia is had such a hard tim after the breakup, no one state had a complete infrustructure.

-Pat

Well I didn't say become enemies. We could easily complete the necessary treaties to be in effect at the time the new Nation kicks off. In fact, some differences in market laws could stimulate competetion and actually spur economic growth. We are looking for a friendly and peaceful seperation.