Has the time come for a revived CSA?

[Patroklos]

Who the hell are you Che, other than some bum stuck to your comp in Jack and then thinking you have any more perspective on anything than anyone else here.

If you wish to argue about something then I'll spar, but don't ever think that you are anything but another anonymous poster, exxpressing your ideas (though wrong ones) like anyone else.

And your racial views are obsolete and archaic.

-Pat

[MrFun]

Patroklos -- I answered your last post.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Not so,

merely that people struggling to fing anything, ANYTHING, to blame for their problems but themselves have nothing better to to by make up numbers.

Follow the links I provided-yeah, those people just made those numbers up!

Look at you two, not even entertaining the thought of adding any other variable to your racist stances. How about class, how about culture, how about linguistic differnaces. Don't give you the results you want though so we skip those.

Those studies did take all other factors into account-they found race still was the independent variable that mattered. Of course, there is also a deep correlation between race and class in this country, which only ADDS to the racial divide.

So many black people have abandoned the weight of self pity and made things of themselves, it is called taking responsibility for your state and problems, regardless of where they come from, and driving on. Not that I understand why they try becasue once they break out from the pathetic "racist" fixation, well then your an Uncle Tom.

-Pat

I don;t even know which smiley to use for this one. Many very succesful blakc sgot there while acknowledging the existance of, and fighting against racism.

It is up to you to offer one, single, solitary, miniscule study done that backs up anythign you say: just one.

[Patroklos]

Mr Fun,

I see what your saying, anit it wa probobly the case back in the day, but the modern South or thr rest of America, has no link to that theory. It is entirely possible to believe in states rights and not be racist or subscribe to your theory. Slavery is ONE states rights issue, albiet an important one, of many.

-Pat

[GePap]

The people who deny the existance of racism always use the same tired lines- and can never show any evidence for their claim that people in this country still do not ignore race when making decisions.

Are whites the most racist? No, hispanics are racist against blacks, blacks against hispanics, people are still racist period-whites just happen to be the majority and the ones with, due to history, the power and the money, so thier actions and their racism affects other groups more.

[Patroklos]

GePap, already read your links, as was plainly stated in the last post (Univeristy of Ohio), and no their explanation of other variables was far from adaquate.

I never stated racism does not exist, only that it is one of many variables that most attribute far too much weight too.

You all are a little more dedicated to surfing the web for weblinks (hardly academic sources) to prop up whichever view you choose, which in the case of Che depends on hour. I am simply responding during study breaks. So no, I am not going to link you to a worhless website and if you wish to declare victory over that, well, go right ahead

-Pat

[GePap]

Your arguements have become tired. Oh, you don;t have time so you can find studies..well, interestingly people with your arguement never can. Funny how it always works out that way, no?

NOw, sadly I don;t have access to Lexis Nexis or Jstor, or I could use real academic sources..maybe you can and find a 'real academic' one to use to validate anythign that you have said?

Probably not, still just on study breaks...

The funy thing ebign you call websites "worthless', yet all you offer is bland luke-warms words about "not blaming anyone else" and other stuff-fluff basically. And yet somehow that should carry more weight than a study? Sorry, i missed were you, in an academically rigid way found that race was a minor factor...please point it out.

[PLATO]

Never ceases to amaze me that the Yankees keep wanting to turn a debate about a free South into a debate on racism. That fact alone shows how truly ignorant of the South they are.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Mr Fun,

I see what your saying, anit it wa probobly the case back in the day, but the modern South or thr rest of America, has no link to that theory. It is entirely possible to believe in states rights and not be racist or subscribe to your theory. Slavery is ONE states rights issue, albiet an important one, of many.

-Pat

So at this point we just agree to disagree??

[Patroklos]

GePap, when Apolyton becomes an international database of academic sources I will feel obliged to spend time digging up things to prove points to people I neither know no care about convincing either way on any issue.

As it is, Apolyton is an informal gathering of peope to talk about whatever they want. I can't say I am not impressed you went the extra mile to find something to back out what you say, but it is not nessecary or required. I don't lend any more credit to your arguement because of a newspaper type article you dug up on yahoo. I find it even more absurd becasue I never stated racism doesn't exist. In fact I really don't disagree with anything you said, I just find it amazing you refuse to take anything but race as a factor, or at least that you put such imphasis on it over other variables.

Anyways, this all started because of some attack someone made of the Southerns, which is by all accounts neither fair nor warrented. As it is, your very article was from Ohio.

-Pat

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Look at you two, not even entertaining the thought of adding any other variable to your racist stances. How about class, how about culture, how about linguistic differnaces

Actually, this wasn't a discussion about class or culture. It's the same reason I didn't bring up religion or cheese. They weren't bein discussed.

[Patroklos]

Well, I suppose I could specifically mention everything, since abstracts like "variables" are beyond you.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Who the hell are you Che, other than some bum stuck to your comp in Jack and then thinking you have any more perspective on anything than anyone else here.

-Pat

On racism, I clearly have more perspective than you. A) I worked for anti-racist groups for over a decade, B) a majority of my family is Black, and I can see how they are treated differently, C) I lived in a neighborhood where Black people were shot at and firebombed by white racists, D) I lived in a Black neighborhood where the cops would randomly harrass everyone but me (being the only white person, E) I notice how I get treated differently when I'm alone or with Black or Hispanic folks, F) I watch my friends get followed in stores, G) I listen to people tell me about crap that happens to them.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Well, I suppose I could specifically mention everything, since abstracts like "variables" are beyond you.

The intersection of class and race isn't as easy an excuse for you as you'd like to believe. While it's true, that Black people are more likely to be in the lower class than whites, and less likely to be in the upper class than whites, even within classes, there is a major difference between how people are treated. There is a reason why there is such a phenomenon as "middle class Black rage."

Why are successful Black people so angry about racism, if it's just an issue of culture or class? After all, they're successful. But when Oprah Winfy is denied access to a private boutique she saw a white women enter ten minutes before, I don't think the major issue is class. Class is not an alternative to race oppression, it is in addition to race oppression.

But like I previously wrote, it's really pointless to try and debate you, because you're willfully ignorant.

[Patroklos]

I never stated racism does not exist, only that it is one of many variables that most attribute far too much weight too.

And you are willfully illiterate.

-Pat