Has the time come for a revived CSA?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by PLATO


Good Lord...You really don't have a clue about today's South, do you?

Actually, I'm more informed about the history behind the rise of the "Lost Cause" mythology than many Southerners.

It rose as a political agenda during and after Reconstruction, and was based on white supremacy.

In fact, during the Jim Crow era, the "Lost Cause" mythology glorified the Ku Klux Klan in the late nineteenth century through the early twentieth century. They used this mythology of the "Lost Cause" to justify lynching, segregation, and economic/political subjugation of blacks during the Jim Crow era.

Also, by the 1890s, the "Lost Cause" mythology became an infatuation among many white Northerners as well. Tragically, the North won the war, but the South won the peace when the two sections reconciled with one another in the fraternal spirit of white supremacy.

Pro-Confederate organizations from the 1880s onwards sought to advance their political agenda of putting forward their twisted version of the historical causes of the Civil War. The "Lost Cause" mythology is based on several things:

1) the Ku Klux Klan was a necessary organization for justice

2) blacks were happy as slaves in antebellum America until Yankee abolitionists poisoned their weak minds with the corrupt idea of freedom

3) Reconstruction was a time of bayonet rule when corruption and incompetence from Republicans ruined the South, thus, the overthrow of Reconstruction was the South's victory over the North, and reestablishing a more traditional racial order -- Jim Crow laws


The fact is, the "Lost Cause" mythology was never hi-jacked; from the beginning, it was a political agenda movement to put forward an inaccurate version of the Civil War's history and the history of Reconstruction.

Unfortunately, many people today who embrace this mythology are ignorant about all the above information.

[chequita guevara]

MrFun is correct, though I would say that most Southerners are willfully ignorant about their history.

Southern historical denial is just like Japanese denial about WWII.

[MrFun]

That's true Chegitz -- maybe I was being too lenient.

But there are others who are unwittingly ignorant, without being deliberate.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
There are still lynchings here.

Where do you live again?

[MrFun]

I think the real tragedy behind the aftermath of the Civil War, is that Americans never really healed from the war.

We began healing from the Civil War through sentimental, romantic, superficial reconciliation through the fraternal spirit of white supremacy by the late 1880s without confronting issues of race relations.

That tragedy is still with us -- Americans are still confounded by race relations and one of the reasons is because we healed from the Civil War without justice.

[Patroklos]

Che, that may be your opinion, but Jacksonville, or Florida period, is hardly a litmus for the rest of the South. I have lived in four southern states (Virginia, Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida) and my family is from the North. I myself was born in RI. I have more than enough perspective in the matter, at least more than you.

The statement that there are still lynchings is a little unfare. I can't help it if a single white person decided to brutally kill a black man with his pickup truck. However, I bet you bottom dollar racial violance is worse in the North and West than it is here, and it has been that way for a very long time.

Racial disparity has no benifit for the majority population. However, it is a very useful to hide behind if your a minority. Does racism exist, sure it does. Is it anywhere near as epedemic as reactionaries and cause nazis maintain. Nowehere near. And of the racism that does exist, it mostly originates in the minorities. Racism is not just hating or loving something becasue of racial bias, it is thinking in racial terms period. And unfortunetly racial thinking is at the forefront of most minority initiatives.

For the record, white people very rarely discuss how we can oppresse the coloreds anymore. It think It has been at least three days sense my last KKK rally, man I am slacking. But you know, I realized that spending 23 hours of my day sneering at minorities on the corner was really a waste of my time. I really don't know how white America accomplished anything in the last 140 years since the Civil War with our intense hatred schedule. It must be due to our racial superiority (I hope they don't find out I'm an Irish Catholic!).

I just thought I would let you all know how the Southern white males think. Amazingly it is exactly what you imagined

-Pat

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


I see a handful, Ned. Furthermore, with the exception of Powell and Rice, most of them are actualy treated as tokens by the Repug party, pulled in for photo ops and then ignored and excluded most of the rest of the time. Even then, Powell and Rice are ignored when it comes to race politics. I am reminded of the time that the White House lied about Connie Rice being opposed to Affirmative Action in education, where upon she herself released a statement saying she supported taking race into consideration in academic access.

Powell, however muchhe may be admired by America, is treated like a red-headed step-child by the Repug party, and for the life of me, I can't see why he doesn't resign (probably because he doesn't want to risk letting the neo-cons have total control).

I think you are simply ignoring that Colin Powell was the overwhelming favorite for the Republican nomination in '96 and Condi Rice is a being talked about as a presidential candidate in '08.

This is not tokenism. No black in the Democrat party has ever been anywhere near the presidential ticket, let alone being its favorite.

And, just let me add here, that if Colin Powell runs in '08, he wins. He gets my vote as well.

[Ramo]

What universe are you living in? Powell didn't run for the nomination in '96.

And you might've heard of a bloke named Jesse Jackson. He finished 2nd to Dukakis in the '88 primary. This was a real campaign that has actually happened (as opposed to Powell and Rice).

[David Floyd]

And if Jackson beat Dukakis, Bush Sr. would have trounced him worse than he did Dukakis, if that's possible

[Ramo]

That's not the point. Ned said blacks have been closer to the Republican nomination than the Democratic nomination, which is clearly false.

[Patroklos]

A Democtatic presidential candidate is not a position, he is quite literally just a candidate for one. Especially since he had no chance of winning the general election, ot was just part of dog and pony show for the black vote (gotta keep them happy, and poor too).

DANCE JESSIE DANCE!!! dance for your democratic white masters. Oh hell, he is messing it up, just give me the strings...

-Pat

-Pat

[MrFun]

One of the other interesting things about post-Civil War reconciliation was that the veterans reunions of the late 19th century and early 20th century that included Northern and Southern soldiers excluded black veterans too many times.

This was only part of the superficial reunion that sought to forget the reasons behind the Civil War.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ramo
What universe are you living in? Powell didn't run for the nomination in '96.

And you might've heard of a bloke named Jesse Jackson. He finished 2nd to Dukakis in the '88 primary. This was a real campaign that has actually happened (as opposed to Powell and Rice).

True, he withdrew his name from consideration. But still, he was the favorite and could have had the nomination if he wanted it.

THAT tells anyone who is fair a lot about the Republican Party.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ramo
That's not the point. Ned said blacks have been closer to the Republican nomination than the Democratic nomination, which is clearly false.

RAMO, you are not being intellectually honest here. Powell was closer in actuality because he was way ahead in the polls when he pulled out.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Patroklos
I really don't know how white America accomplished anything in the last 140 years since the Civil War with our intense hatred schedule. It must be due to our racial superiority (I hope they don't find out I'm an Irish Catholic!).

-Pat

We really haven't accomplished that much in terms of race relations -- read my posts for the reasons why it may be the case that we have accomplished less than we realize in terms of race relations.

In spite of all the legislated laws and amendments, we are still confounded by race relations and part of the reason is the "Lost Cause" mythology.