Russia pulls out of Kyoto - What is the future of the Protocol?

[Pekka]

DinoDoc, I guess you were wrong about it .

It pisses me off that we even try to be nice about it. If there are countries that don't want to go with it, then we shouldn't go either. It's like this, when the next Chernobyl happens, and our nature starts dying, well we can all be happy about it 'well at least it wasn't one of ours!'. Big deal! We should just go with the program and continue business as usual. Though we are just building new reactor, so that's a good thing. Of course the hippies were against it saying that there are alternative power sources, like we could hire million chinese people working on bicycles hooked to generators. Yeah way to go hippies. Well some day power ends when the chinese are tired of cycling, and they can't write their feisty posts to their commie forums where they describe the best ways to make home wine, grow lenin style beards and where to get the latest hemp shirts, or what commune holds the next orgies in the name of collectivness and awareness. Yeah.. I'm ok with it, I mean they can continue living in those horrible houses with 400 in them and no heating or electrics, and sing party songs and praise Marx, what ever gets them the buzz, but if it means I can't have live like I want, then it's time for buttkicking action. Kick the hippies.

[JohnT]

We need more Europeans like Pekka.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by rah
No insult intended. There are a few real nice areas in Tennesse. There're a few nice areas in Mississippi too, it's just that they're harder to find.

I found several in both, with little time and effort. Just on a 6 day college scouting expidition through the south.

[Whoha]

Some interesting stuff.

If the US and Russia were to completely disappear tommorrow, how much would that advance what Kyoto calls for?

less then half.

http://www.sepp.org/leipzig.html

Now thats even assuming that the science the Treaty was based on wasn't flawed, and that evil Americans like myself are also responsible for global warming on Mars,etc.

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by JohnT
We need more Europeans like Pekka.

Europe has been exporting its more independent minded citizens for centuries. Where do you think all those Americans, Australians, etc. come from!

(the trouble is what we are left with - all those aspiring bureaucrats)

In the UK new cars have to be designed to meet emissions standards and are tested annually once they are 3 years old. It is also getting increasingly expensive to scrap cars here so many get abandoned and the local authorities have to clear up - which is very expensive.

They don't test motorcycles yet. Hooray!

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Whoha
Some interesting stuff.

If the US and Russia were to completely disappear tommorrow, how much would that advance what Kyoto calls for?

less then half.

http://www.sepp.org/leipzig.html

Now thats even assuming that the science the Treaty was based on wasn't flawed, and that evil Americans like myself are also responsible for global warming on Mars,etc.

interesting link

Take a look at the signees. They're not in my field, but it appears to include a number of very senior scientists.

[Pekka]

CerberusIV, I think we have exactly the same model. I don't mind it that much though.. It's good that they can remove some of the safety hazard cars away from the traffic every now and then, because sometimes the car owners don't realize how crappy their car is, and that it's about to explode to pieces in matter of days. That's what you get when no one can afford cars made after mid 90s.

[rah]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
Just on a 6 day college scouting expidition through the south.

I thought the same about the University of Illinois (Champaign Urbana) when I visited. But after attending I had a chance to leave the city proper area and visit the surrounding communities. I wouldn't have been surprised to stumble into a KKK meeting. My hair was a touch long and if I hadn't been travelling with my roomate, (who was the son of one of the local preachers) I'm sure I would have been strung up to the nearest tree just for looking almost like a hippie.

[laurentius]

wasn't aware that Bush was in charge of Russia too.

You know what I mean. It was Bush who started the snowball effect.

Just more proof that it was a flawed treaty.

It wasnt flawed until you ruined it. Dont act like it isnt in the best intrest of you, and your kids too to grow even in a little more clean world.

I didn't know they had Taliban in Finland?

I'm not aware of them here either, I'm convinced tho that america and russia supposedly have been hijacked by big mean corporations. For your information our democracy is a little more advanced than the 2 party police state you live in.

Just a question. Do other countries have regularly scheduled mandatory car emission tests like the US? Where if the car fails you must have it fixed or face a license suspension. Or is this just a US thing.

We have and I hope other countries have as well. Tell me you didnt seriously thought it was just a US thing

Why would Russia support a treaty that doesn't help it in anyway? I am surprised it signed it in the first place.

Doesnt help it in anyway? WTF? I thought you were somekind of leftist? Left parties tend to care about the good of the people not just the big factories. You certainly dont seem to care whether an average russian dies in the age of 45 to one of the numerous lung-related diseases so common there. Off course it is in the Russian intrests, the problem just is that neither the US or the Russian government actuallu care about the good for their people. Thats wy I call them morally corrupt.

For the feel good reasons the EU did I imagine?

I LOVE LIVING. Especially a healthy and good life with as little emissions as possible.

Not to mention our 'free public transportation' is maybe the most expensive I've ever seen travelling the world.. oh well.. but that's just lies! LIES I TELL YOU! Everything here is so good.. beer is cheap and service is good

So as far as emissions go, I can trust you my American friends, that in Europe, or at least in most parts, or at least in northern parts we are very uptight and anal about it. I mean, next thing I know I have to file a report if I fart outdoors and pay fines for destroying the ozone crap. I hate it anyway, I wish we'd kill the big O so we could just stop talking about it. We should just attack the border control anyway, I want my cars in regular prices, not in northern european prices where you are punished for owning a car. And again punished if you drive it. Because that makes you a polluter and a rich mofo anyway. I say to every car owner.. let's take these hypocrite commies back to where they belong (6 feet under) and rise victorious to our NEW and GLORIOUS future wher WE decide what we can do with our money and cars. What's the point of working anyway, if I can't buy cars with it. It's not supposed to be treated as luxury, it's just a freaking car! KILL THE TRAITORS!

It pisses me off that we even try to be nice about it. If there are countries that don't want to go with it, then we shouldn't go either. It's like this, when the next Chernobyl happens, and our nature starts dying, well we can all be happy about it 'well at least it wasn't one of ours!'. Big deal! We should just go with the program and continue business as usual. Though we are just building new reactor, so that's a good thing. Of course the hippies were against it saying that there are alternative power sources, like we could hire million chinese people working on bicycles hooked to generators. Yeah way to go hippies. Well some day power ends when the chinese are tired of cycling, and they can't write their feisty posts to their commie forums where they describe the best ways to make home wine, grow lenin style beards and where to get the latest hemp shirts, or what commune holds the next orgies in the name of collectivness and awareness. Yeah.. I'm ok with it, I mean they can continue living in those horrible houses with 400 in them and no heating or electrics, and sing party songs and praise Marx, what ever gets them the buzz, but if it means I can't have live like I want, then it's time for buttkicking action. Kick the hippies.

Why are you so angry about? Why do have to jack my thread? Why do you blame communists for about everything? Why do you act like a little child wo cant have better toy than all the rest? If you want cheap beer, cheap gas and basicly cheap everything go to Russia. Now you're acting like an idiot.

[rah]

A treaty is signed for one of two reasons only.
1. At gunpoint. (not the case here)
2. Or when all parties concerned believe it's in their best self interest.

It's the failure of the diplomats when they don't put forth an agreement that countries will sign, and more importantly, live up to afterwards. That was obviously the case with this treaty proving it was flawed.

I'm making no claims to right or wrong, just flawed. No unsigned treaty is worth anything.

[Pekka]

I'm not angry. I'm jsut being loud about it. I didn't start the car discussion and if I'm the only one getting blamed for threadjacking, then I think it's wrong.

Why do you blame Americans for everything?

Because the toys suck. If every kid is playing with rocks, I guess it's about time someone stood up and said 'hey this rock sucks'.

I might be acting like an idiot, but you're barking the wrong tree.

[rah]

The threadjack is mine. (and it's not much of one since it is quite related) And yes, you're entitled to your opinion.

[aaglo]

Rah,
It's the failure of the human nature, that flaws the deal - not diplomats (or are they humans too?)

I think the Kyoto treaty was somewhat similar to communism - a very good idea which doesn't work because of greed of men.

[laurentius]

Amen Aaglo.

And now that we have all realisid this we might just get on to our SUVs and pollute like never before

Who needs any regulation?
[chorus] Comminists Do!

Let us feast now, and die tomorrow
What do you want to pollute today?

[Jon Miller]

I just don't happen to see Kyoto as being a very good response to environmental threats

it is very costly, and there are much worse things going on against the environment

Jon Miller