It's going to be WWIII

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Defiant
Mr Fun,
Yes we have some, but our gov't doesn't condone it and we are not digging up 300,000 bodies in Illinois, a little bit of difference.

I know -- I did not claim that our religious extremist segment is on the same level as that found in parts of the Middle East.



anyway, carry on

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by Azazel
Yes, but there it's norm. Did you know that there are many people arested in Egypt for forming gay clubs ( that are illegal )? I won't even start talking about the rest of the arab world.

Again the problem is more complex. Anyone who has actually been to Egypt will notice that in some places popular with tourists elderly Western men are consorting with younger, in some cases much younger, Egyptian men. Obviously some sort of money transaction must take place between them. I think that the Egyptian authorities fear that this sex trade will get out of hand, like Thailand for instance, and hence they use rather heavyhanded tactics.

Of course the people who feel genuine affection to eachother are also hurt by this policing effort, and the authorities should make an effort to seperate between relationships of an affectionate character and one based on pecuniary interest.

[Az]

Anyone who has actually been to Egypt will notice that in some places popular with tourists elderly Western men are consorting with younger, in some cases much younger, Egyptian men.

I actually have been to egypt, and I've seen nothing of the sort.

I really like the way you pretend that this is because Egyptian police wants to stop male prostitution, though.

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by Azazel
I actually have been to egypt, and I've seen nothing of the sort.

I really like the way you pretend that this is because Egyptian police wants to stop male prostitution, though.

Well, I noticed it. Maybe you were too busy gaping at the Pyramids. And in fact there is academic documentation for it as well.

And I don't pretend that the police is clamping down on this, I think it. But if you have another explanation for it I would like to hear it.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
Huntington is about a big a fool as Fukuyama.

OHH MY GOD!! I AGREE WITH BODS!

NO, this is not a world war, a clash of civs, or whatever.

The existance of Al qaeda makes it global, but that a conflict is global does not make it a world war, anymore than the fact the drug war is global makes the drug war world war 5 or whatever. The deficit of democracy in and around the Muslim world leads to lots of conflicts- but the Islamic world is no more violent otday than Latin America was 20 years ago.. we are seeing the consequences of a huge demographic boom that repressive and backward governments have not been able to keep up with, and the growth of nationalist struggles. The islamists of today are in fact the way they are becuase they have incorporated universalist western values and notions of politics.

So no, this is no world war by any stretch of those words.

[Az]

And I don't pretend that the police is clamping down on this, I think it. But if you have another explanation for it I would like to hear it.

They don't like gay people? duh.


oh, and Huntington wasn't speaking about a world war, or anything else organized. He was speaking about geopolitical trends, that I've found to be very correct, btw.

[GePap]

Bah to Huntington

[Ben Kenobi]

Look at how many religious right extremists in United States justified the murder of Matthew Shepherd several years ago.

And a gay man looking for sex in a public park is a martyr?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Tripledoc


Iran still has woman suffrage. In fact in Iran anyone at and over the age of fifteen can vote, in that particular sense they are more progressive than any western socalled democracy.

Yeah, but the elected officials still have to get the approval of the mullahs.

There is a reason for the pro-democracy movement in Iran and it has nothing to do with the formalities of voting.

[Tripledoc]

WORLD NEWS: Islam is no drag on economic growth, US think-tank finds
By Alan Beattie in Washington
Financial Times; Dec 08, 2003

There is no evidence that Islam restricts economic growth, according to new research that casts doubt on the widely-held belief that Muslim societies are intrinsically less conducive to capitalism than those dominated by other religions.

The study, by Marcus Noland at the Institute for International Economics think-tank in Washington, reviewed growth in developing countries over the past few decades and found no evidence that countries with large Muslim populations grew more slowly, or had lower productivity growth.

Looking at growth within three religiously mixed countries - India, Malaysia and Ghana - only Malaysia showed statistically significant lower growth within its Muslim population.

"Islam does not appear to be a drag on growth or an anchor on development as alleged," the paper concludes.

Excluding the effects of oil production, which dominates the Islamic Middle East, or studying Muslim Arab countries separately made no difference to the results. Conventional economic fundamentals such as the level of education and the share of investment and government in the economy - which were found to be unrelated to the prevalence of Islam - mattered far more for economic success.

"If one is concerned about economic performance in predominantly Muslim regions or countries, conventional economic analysis may yield greater insight than the sociology of religion," the study says.

Mr Noland said his results aroused suspicion, bordering on disbelief, among colleagues when he first produced them.

The study, started just after the September 11 attacks on the US, "had a very long gestation because of that", he said.

The view that particular religious affiliations affect growth has been a fertile ground for sociologists since the pioneering work of Max Weber, the German sociologist.

Some sociologists have argued that the tendency of Islamic education to rely on reiteration of a finite set of information, together with the disapproval of lending money at interest, has restricted innovation and growth in Muslim count-ries.

In contrast to the highly successful Islamic civilisations around the turn of the first millennium, the fact that Muslims are relatively poor in the modern world has reawakened interest in the links between Islam and economic success.

Report can be found here:

http://www.iie.com/publications/wp/2003/03-8.pdf

Edit: The study actually says that Islam promotes Growth!

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


And a gay man looking for sex in a public park is a martyr?

Matthew was cruising a bar for a "hook-up" -- just like many heterosexuals AND homosexuals do in their respective bars and nightclubs.


So, do you really think that if you approached a woman for a one night stand, and she was utterly disgusted with your advance -- even though you did not continue to harrass her -- would she be right to murder you?

I'll let you think about that one.

[Mr. President]

Edit: The study actually says that Islam promotes Growth!

That's vaguely interesting . . .

[Ned]

Doesn't Islam preach, as once did the Catholic religion, that "interest" on loans was sinful?

[RGBVideo]

Saddam was also supporting and training al Qa'ida.

Exactly what I ment. Hopeless.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Tuomerehu

Yes. Iraqi goverment had been supporting terrorist organisations, mainly the al-Qaeda network.

Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.

Lest we forget that Sadaam was offering hard cash to the families of anyone wishing to be a suicide bomber. Terrorism doesn't mean al-qaeda.