It's going to be WWIII

[Drake Tungsten]

I don't think there is anything ethnocentrist in saying Japan is experiencing a change. I haven't remembered saying it was good or bad.

Well, this statement...

however it is true many societies need some maturation before emphasizing on the individual rather than the collective.

... sure made it sound like you thought individualist societies are more mature (ie. advanced) than collectivist ones.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Tripledoc
You don't think that ...

I stoped reading your earlier post once you went into fantasy land regarding capitalism/communism. The only thing I wish to add in response to you is that there does come a point in the development of a country where an authoritarian regime becomes a drag on the economic health of the country. The USSR is a prime example of that.

[Spiffor]

Drake:

Sorry, it's not exactly what I wanted to say. I mean, individualistic societies require to be quite advanced already (in the meaning there is much population and widespread division of work; this requires in turn not to have too many people being farmers, i.e. they emerged about at the industrial revolution in the west).

But although a modern society is a condition for the emergence of an individualistic society, all modern societies will not always turn individualistic. Such was the case of Japan since the late 19th century, and maybe another Asian country will manage to have an uber-modern society that is not individualistic.

In a way, the Finns and Swedes do that as well. Their socieities acknowledge the uniqueness of individuals, but they level the income level and have taxes that would give a heart attack to any Yank. Yet, their societies are among the most technologically advanced in the world

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I stoped reading your earlier post once you went into fantasy land regarding capitalism/communism. The only thing I wish to add in response to you is that there does come a point in the development of a country where an authoritarian regime becomes a drag on the economic health of the country. The USSR is a prime example of that.

I thought Russia was more or less ruined by their transition to capitalism. Of course now we are seeing a more authoritarian government in Moscow, and in fact the Russian economy is progressing nicely at the moment.

[Drake Tungsten]

Such was the case of Japan since the late 19th century, and maybe another Asian country will manage to have an uber-modern society that is not individualistic.

Oh, the Koreans aren't going to like this.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ned
OK, name one.

Tendency to accept and defend authoritarian regimes.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Oh, the Koreans aren't going to like this.

You mean, that I say the Japanese had a modern society, or that I don't mention Korea as an "uber-modern society that is not individualistic" ?

I was under the impression that both Korea and China were progressively becoming more individualistic as they continue their jounrey to western-like capitalism, but I admit my knowledge is very close of nil.

[Drake Tungsten]

You mean, that I say the Japanese had a modern society, or that I don't mention Korea as an "uber-modern society that is not individualistic" ?

Both, but mostly the latter.

I was under the impression that both Korea and China were progressively becoming more individualistic as they continue their jounrey to western-like capitalism, but I admit my knowledge is very close of nil.

It depends on how you define "individualistic". Citizens in both countries are indeed becoming more individual, but I wouldn't consider the societies to be individualistic by any stretch of the imagination.

[Ned]

Drake, I think the lower crime rate is related to the strong family structures in Asia. People do not want to shame their families with a criminal record.

Actually, I somewhat envy the strong family relationships in Asia. Strenghtening the family structure in the West, particularly in the ghetto, would help us enormously.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by laurentius

Ps. MtG its you whos the troller over Iraq with your crappy threads

Actually, some of his posts on this topic are some of the most informative.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Tripledoc
I thought ...

1) The USSR was not only Russia. Stop being so limited in you thinking.

2) Russia never stopped having an authoritarian government. I fail to see the point.

[Drake Tungsten]

Drake, I think the lower crime rate is related to the strong family structures in Asia. People do not want to shame their families with a criminal record.

What do you think a collectivist society is? Strong family relationships are one of the most important, if not the most important, aspects of a collectivist society, at least in its East Asian iteration.

Actually, I somewhat envy the strong family relationships in Asia. Strenghtening the family structure in the West, particularly in the ghetto, would help us enormously.

I agree.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Tripledoc


Yes and the development has come from within. When the time is right the huddled masses will by their own accord topple the regime. Any external pressure from the West will only hinder this development because I believe most people are willing to give up personal liberty in exchange for pride in national sovereignty. After all it is better to have a dictator who speaks your language than being ruled by a foreign one.

This may have been true at one time, but with today's technology it can be very difficult to unseat a dictator that is determined to hold onto power without outside intervention. Iraq provides an excellent example. A huge rebellion at the end of Gulf War I that was easily put down by superior technology(in the form of mechanized weapons). In today's world the masses cannot simply "rise up"...they need some help.

[CharlesBHoff]

The person who start this threat I believe stated that Islam force convert people. That isnot true as Islam have never have mass force covertion of people in it history. When the founder of Islam was force to defend Islam againt the pagan in Mecca who attack Medin some of his major allied trides where pagan.
The only religion I know as for afact that carried out mass force convertion of people was the Roman Church in the Dark
Age when the Frankish King convert from pagan to roman christian he force all of his kingdom people to converted of they will have they head cut off. Spain in 1492 past than law stateing all non-roman christian have to convert or leave spain or stay an be tortue by the spanish inquistion. Many Jew left spain to goto muslum countries where they where free to workship they religion.

[Ned]

Charles, would you consider Roman persecutions of Christians attempts at forced conversions?