Zorba can kiss my ass.

[Az]

So when you say you hate Palestinians you really mean every single Palestinian, and not just those responsible for the terrorist attacks?

When did I say I hate Palestinians?

In case you meant you wanted me to give an example...
The whole Sharon case with Belgium's genocide law springs to mind. Israel jumped onto the Belgian government frothing at the mouth, calling it anti-semitic. I gather they hadn't heard of the separation of power yet?

The Israeli government did NOT call the belgian government antisemitic, at least not to the best of my knowledge ( Please correct me, if you can prove it. ). What it did say that that case was extremely biased, the law that allowed it was stupid, condenscending and hypocritical, and that many people supporting that case in court did so from antisemitical reasons.

Sure, he could have put it more diplomatically, but hey, he's not a politician you know... And there's still something like "freedom of speech".

That's not what we're debating here, are we? We're debating whether this was an anti-semite statement, or not.

The first quote is a bit of a bold statement maybe, probably mostly because of the heat of the argument or because of his distaste of Israeli politics. I don't see anything wrong with it

since he's discussing having "more history", it's obvious that he's comparing the GREEKS with the JEWS. ( btw, his claim is wrong, but nm that. ) Therefore, in his statement of "THIS NATION is the root of all evil", he doesn't mean Israel, Zionist entity, whatever.




Maybe we should've rolled over and died, like 60 years ago. Maybe then he'd write some songs about us.

[Ben Kenobi]

I thought you were making fun of Pattycakes, to be honest....

Same here, a Greek troll nicknamed Zorba?

[chequita guevara]

If anti-Semitism is so bad in Europe, why don't they hate New York and Florida?

[Az]

They do, as part of their collective hate of america, of course.

[Sandman]

Greek composer and cultural icon Mikis Theodorakis added his contribution to the anti-Semitic miasma rising in parts of the world by characterizing the Jews as the root of the world's evils

Miasma, huh? That's a new one.

Anti-semitism in Europe is grossly exaggerated for a variety of political ends. Sad and frightening.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by axi
However it's about time that the world leaves nationalism behind and progresses to the next stage.

Great sentiments! So, uh, how you gonna implement it? I mean, there's 6.2 billion people to consider here ...

[Nubclear]

Israel can kiss my ass.

[BeBMan]

No need to share your crazy phantasies here....

[Mercator]

Originally posted by Azazel
When did I say I hate Palestinians?

No idea... I was just using it as an example. People use generalizations (to put it in a generalization ).

The Israeli government did NOT call the belgian government antisemitic, at least not to the best of my knowledge ( Please correct me, if you can prove it. ).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,895288,00.html

What it did say that that case was extremely biased, the law that allowed it was stupid, condenscending and hypocritical, and that many people supporting that case in court did so from antisemitical reasons.

Yes, the law was silly, but I doubt it was condescending or hypocritical. It's not like they passed it just to annoy Israel or anything. I think it was passed originally for the international tribunal for war crimes in Rwanda.

I don't think the people brought the case to court for antisemitic reasons, although it certainly was rather opportunistic.

That's not what we're debating here, are we? We're debating whether this was an anti-semite statement, or not.

Point taken.

since he's discussing having "more history", it's obvious that he's comparing the GREEKS with the JEWS. ( btw, his claim is wrong, but nm that. ) Therefore, in his statement of "THIS NATION is the root of all evil", he doesn't mean Israel, Zionist entity, whatever.

I'm not sure... I think a lot of people use Israeli and Jew interchangeably, simply because pretty much the only Jews in world news these days are the Israelis. Not to mention that Israel usually reacts to (supposedly) anti-semitic events (thereby identifying itself with Judaism, even though it is a secular state), rather than some rabbi or the Simon Wiesenthal center or something... But then, those don't have any ulterior political motives to jump on things like this.

[Az]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,895288,00.html

You can clearly see, it accuses the court not the government. are you familiar with the concept of separation of powers?

Yes, the law was silly, but I doubt it was condescending or hypocritical. It's not like they passed it just to annoy Israel or anything. I think it was passed originally for the international tribunal for war crimes in Rwanda.

it WAS condescending, because Belgium is hardly the judge of approriate state behavior in modern history. *cough*Congo*cough*

I'm not sure... I think a lot of people use Israeli and Jew interchangeably, simply because pretty much the only Jews in world news these days are the Israelis.

nope. The USA is still a bit in front on the number of jews in the world, i.e. there are more of them in the US, than in Israel. Yes, you heard it, the biggest number of jews is IN THE US.

Not to mention that Israel usually reacts to (supposedly) anti-semitic events (thereby identifying itself with Judaism, even though it is a secular state), rather than some rabbi or the Simon Wiesenthal center or something... But then, those don't have any ulterior political motives to jump on things like this.

Though Israel is relatively secular ( relatively to the Mid east, but still is rather religious, sadly, fortunately, the tide of secularism is back on track ), it still is a nation-state. Jews aren't just a religion, but a nation, too.


@BeBro....

[Mercator]

it WAS condescending, because Belgium is hardly the judge of approriate state behavior in modern history. *cough*Congo*cough*

I'm pretty sure the same law could have been used to accuse Belgians regarding Congo.

nope. The USA is still a bit in front on the number of jews in the world, i.e. there are more of them in the US, than in Israel. Yes, you heard it, the biggest number of jews is IN THE US.

I know. That's why I said "Jews in world news". Even if the entire US government were Jewish, we never hear they are.

Jews aren't just a religion, but a nation, too.

I'm sure a lot of Israelis as well as Jews would disagree with that.

[Arrian]

****ing great thread title.



-Arrian

[Boris Godunov]

I'm amused at the notion that the Greeks weren't historically aggressive. Just because they've been impotent in modern history (except where Italians are concerned) doesn't make them lambs. Looks like he needs a primer on his own history.

[Az]

I'm sure a lot of Israelis as well as Jews would disagree with that.

well, gee, that's great, but does that mean anything? Jews are a nation, in all matter concerned.

[Bereta_Eder]

Even though I'm bored, or maybe because of it, here are some "developments" which I will try to translate.


From the government spokesman:

"The government does not share and does not agree with the views expressed during the event by Mikis Theodorakis concerning the Jewish people. The Greek people in its historical journey has defended the Hebrew Community in Greece which Mr. Theodorakis himself has honoured with his musical work "Mauthausen" (sp?)

Mikis Theodorakis, himself, in his yesterday written statement, reminds that he was always on the side of the people of Israel.

Specifically he mentions:

"My opinion for the people of Israel was always known - as is for all matters and i honestly wonder/(question) for what reason/(purpose) so much noise was now created, as if some people heard it for the first time.
Maybe some, considered this moment opportune for them to unleash this attack against me.
I always was on the side of the weak, of the fighting for its rights peoples. And amongst them, the people of Israel.
I've sung his pathoi/(tortures) as best as I could.
I always was in favor of the peaceful coexistance of peoples. And I have demonstrated it, by deeds, amongst others when I assumed the role of the mediator between Alon (sp?) and Arafat in the events of 1972.

But, exactly because of these reasons, I am absolutely against the Saron policy and I have repedeatly underlined it, as I have also repedeadly condemned the role of epifanon (??) (well known/public figures) American Jewish politicians, thinkers and theoriticians in the carving out of today's aggressive "policy" of Bush.

Only indentionally there can be a confusion between the Israeli people, which by deeds I have proven that I honour and admire, and those negative phenomena which in essence THEY (his capitals) blacken the image of Israel playing genuine "antisemitic" part, THEY on the side of the bad/(evil), in the root of bad (evil) as I have recently declared(/said).

Personally, I am glad because I know that there are a lot of Israelis in all the world and inside Israel who agree with me and are fighting for the real rights of their people who can coexist with the rights of other people, they fight for peace in their region and the whole world.
I am glad that we are together in these common(shared) fights, for decades. And I know that they know me well, through these struggles, and are not waiting from the slurs (mud) of some to know me.
Is this perhaps the goal of those who, suddendly, "discovered" my ideas and slured(badmouthed me) me as an "antisemetic"?






Sorry for the translation many words in greek i dont know them in english, so i did what i could.

http://www.enet.gr/online/online_p1_text.jsp?c=110&id=74397580