France wants to ban religious and political symbols from schools

[Cookie Monster]

Isn't it great to live in a world where we can ban anyone or anything that upsets anyone? Let's clamp down on all forms of expression and stamp out individuality in all beings!

Let egalite, fraternite, et whatever else rot and replace it with brutal censorship.

Over 200 years ago we fought for personal freedoms and today we fight to take away freedoms. Like I said great world we live in.

[Az]

Actually, only very recently a semblance of true equality was achieved.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Azazel
Yeah, whatever.

Where oh where is the melting pot?

same place its always been Azazel.

The New Colossus, by Emma Lazarus


"The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips.

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

[mrmitchell]

Again, Christians do not feel threatened by religious symbolism of religions not their own because we are confident in our beliefs. This restriction merely illustrates how insecure atheists are in what they believe, that if to look on a cross on someones neck must be banned to make them comfortable.

You must hang out with some weird Christians, Ben.

[Ben Kenobi]

Because people aren't taught enough about scientific methods, and approaches. when you've got people that are more ignorant, it's easier to sway them that way.

Azazel:

So who's fault is that? The Christians or the schools? Just because the schools are not doing their jobs does not mean that you should bar the Christians from expressing their beliefs.

Mr. Mitchell:



Just because the Moslems erect a Mosque does not mean I ought to oppose the Moslems from doing so. That's the attitude, I'm talking about, that if we have religious freedom it will serve to protect all religions, and it will not be a threat to Christianity.

How is this attitude weird?

You should read Areopagitica, Milton argues for religious freedoms, as:

"Let truth and falsehood grapple. Whoever knew truth to be the lesser in a free and open encounter?"

That's a weird attitude?

[Ben Kenobi]

I wonder whether it's possible to wear a headscarf in a Christian private school. In those regions, where the anti-headscarf law is proposed, it's supported especially by people with a christian (catholic) background, so don't speak for all Christians.

Wernazuma:

There are some conservative Christians who do insist on headscarves. Even in the Catholic church.

The point here comes from your distinction of private schools. And here we get into freedom of association.

Private Catholic schools ought to be able to set a dress code for their students, if they so choose. This example includes a public school, to which all citizens must subsidise.

So what France needs is a concrete concept of Freedom of Association, rather than a ban on religious expression.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Theben
I saw nothing in the translated article barring students from personal displays. It seems to limit the display by the schools and faculty.

Considering recent history in France, I don't think that is a safe assumption to make.

[GePap]

I can understand that the French want to do this for the reason Azazel prescribes, the creation of a single French Identity that would be paramount, ahead of any other identity. The problem I see with this law is that it may encourage people that might be on the line to pull children out of state schools and into private schools, thus furthering, not weakening, the devide. I assume of course that independent private schools exist in France and that this law would not apply.

[Japher]

I'm all for banning French for Religion

I'm with Azazel, this really sucks. ACLU has gone French; FUClU

[mrmitchell]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Mr. Mitchell:



Just because the Moslems erect a Mosque does not mean I ought to oppose the Moslems from doing so. That's the attitude, I'm talking about, that if we have religious freedom it will serve to protect all religions, and it will not be a threat to Christianity.

How is this attitude weird?

You should read Areopagitica, Milton argues for religious freedoms, as:

"Let truth and falsehood grapple. Whoever knew truth to be the lesser in a free and open encounter?"

That's a weird attitude?

No. The Christians you hang out with are wierd and odd from the rest of the group, because--like about 90% of any population--most of the ones I've met are threatened, ignorant, and couldn't know what "religious freedoms" if it kicked them in the ass.

Then again, it's completely believable that the educated 10% lives in Canada.

[Wernazuma III]

Ben: You got me wrong. I was not arguing against the fact that private schools may or should apply dress codes on their pupils. That can be debated too, but it's not the point here). I was rather arguing against the notion that Christians (and only them) are so firm in their faith that they "have no need to be offended by the display of other religion's symbols"-statement. It read as if this position was genuine to Christianity.

Of course, I'm against that stupid law. It is telling citizens to leave their religion at the wardrobe because now they enter the "public secular sphere"...

[Ben Kenobi]

"have no need to be offended by the display of other religion's symbols"-statement. It read as if this position was genuine to Christianity.

In the public square, yes, I would agree with you.

And it is not limited to Christians, there certainly are other faiths that do the same. I did not intend my statement to be limited to Christians, but as a Christian, it would be funny for me to speak of Jews and Muslims in the same regard.

Imagine if I said,

"Moslems have no need to be afraid of the other religion's symbols."

It implies that I speak for Moslems, and this is definitely not the case.

[Ben Kenobi]

The Christians you hang out with are wierd and odd from the rest of the group,

Thanks for the compliment, but I doubt I am even especially odd among Christians.

ACLU has gone French; FUClU

LMFAO!

[Ben Kenobi]

the creation of a single French Identity that would be paramount, ahead of any other identity.

Gepap:

I remind you of the Inquisition. I think you would have a much different tone, if your beliefs were the ones being restricted for being heresy and therefore a threat to a CATHOLIC France.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Hagbart


Children shouldn't be forced to look at religiuos symbols while in school. I strongly support separation of school/state and religion.

You've no idea what separation of church and state is, if you think banning children from wearing religious emblems is part of it.