Dean wants to be the candidate for those flying the Confederate Flag

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ramo
Whoever thinks the abolition movement was part of the religious right is a tad bit delusional.

By virtues of their denominations and religious history, and their movement away from their Puritan & Calvinist roots, the Christian churches involved in the abolitionist movement were pretty moderate for their era.

[Ramo]

Yeah, it's not like conservatives are still denying gays fundamental human rights. They'd never do such a thing.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ramo
Yeah, it's not like conservatives are still denying gays fundamental human rights. They'd never do such a thing.

I wasn't equating liberalism with civil rights. I was referring to the spectrum of different Christian denominations in the US in the first half of the 19th century. They were all relatively conservative, but the abolitionists then were not the denominations (or their antecedents) which are now most heavily associated with modern Christian conservatism as a political movement in the US.

[Ramo]

I was responding to GF.

For the most part I agree with you. But abolitionist churches also typically alligned themselves with the lefty free soil, free labour, free men coalition - the original Fremont era Republican coalition before Lincoln and his protectionist, corporatist policies hijacked the party.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by MrFun


God this is an ignorant statement.

The Republican party and the Democratic party went through a political realingment in the 1890s and 1930s, so that today, they are two different parties than they were in the 1850s through 1880s.

The Republican party in the mid-nineteenth century was an activist party for civil rights and stronger federal government.

The Democratic party in the min-nineteenth century was a white supremacist party and advocated stronger states' rights.

To say that these two parties are the same today as they were in the mid-nineteenth century is incredibly naive.

Are you German perchance?

[Dis]

Originally posted by Ramo
Yeah, it's not like conservatives are still denying gays fundamental human rights. They'd never do such a thing.

gays don't have fundamental human rights?

[Sikander]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat

Let's not kid each other. The primary intent of vouchers is to allow public tax money (most of which is not paid by the parents of school age kids, their tax contributions are only a small part of the per-kid cost) to be diverted to private religiously based schools.

The voucher movement sprouted right out of the ashes of the "Committee for Excellence in Education" a religious right group which tried to gain stealth control of public school boards all over the US.

I'm no proponent of religious education, but I do feel that our children (from every social class) do need to have an effective education. In the 1990s three of my co-workers (out of 15) were sending their children to Catholic schools. All of them were middle class people, without huge sums of money to throw away on prestige spending. None of them were Catholic. They simply wanted their children to attend a school that worked, and they had little enough confidence in the public school system that they felt it worth their while to spend their own money to make that happen. I think that the numbers of poorer people who feel the same way are even higher in percentage terms because often their schools are even worse than the mediocrity that we call public education in middle class areas. But people any poorer than my co-workers cannot afford to send their children to other schools.

[Ramo]

gays don't have fundamental human rights?

Like, in some states, to ****.

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by MrFun
Hey moron -- I'm a Democrat and I'm well informed about the history of the Democratic party.

Alright, so you're a well informed moron.

Congratulations.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Yeah, but AFAIC, ol' Howie should take himself out sooner, rather than later, so we have a chance at a real alternative to Bush.

They'll just nominate Sharpton instead.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Ask Wesley Clark.

Wasn't he a Republican until a few months ago?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Abolistionists, aka, the religious right

Actually, the religious left, or center (remember I am a Republican, so the charges of liberals revising history won't stick with me ). They definitely weren't on the right wing of Christianity in America at the time.

Wasn't he a Republican until a few months ago?

No, AFAIK, he never was a Republican. He was always registered Democrat.

--

MtG, which candidate from the Democratic primary (slim pickin' I know) would you back?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Wasn't he a Republican until a few months ago?

No, AFAIK, he never was a Republican. He was always registered Democrat.

My mistake. It was the praise he was giving the President at a time when most Democrats where baying for blood (the tax cut) that confused me.

[Imran Siddiqui]

was the praise he was giving the President at a time when most Democrats where baying for blood (the tax cut) that confused me.

He's a good soldier. Support the chief when you are under him.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Abolistionists, aka, the religious right

Actually, the religious left, or center (remember I am a Republican, so the charges of liberals revising history won't stick with me ). They definitely weren't on the right wing of Christianity in America at the time.

Wasn't he a Republican until a few months ago?

No, AFAIK, he never was a Republican. He was always registered Democrat.

--

MtG, which candidate from the Democratic primary (slim pickin' I know) would you back?

Clark, Then Kerry. Ideally a Clark-Kerry ticket, and I'd like to grab Zell Miller for the cabinet, since he's retiring from the Senate, IIRC. I'll tolerate Lieberman in there somewhere, but Clark is my preferred choice by far.