Minorities Getting Better Education Than Other Kids

[Al B. Sure!]

Now, if I was born in a worker's family, the simple fact of going to uni would likely be seen a success in itself; It would not have been the obvious.

no... a lower middle class family would stress graduating high school and going on to college far more than a bourgeious family. being the first one in your family to graduate high school means something.

[Bereta_Eder]

Coming from the same background as Spiffor, I'd agree with him but also with Albert Speer. My grandfather (RIP) was working class and he and my grandmother did their outmost to send their kids to university and succeeded. But, at the same time this was not the norm, meaning that was not what was expected from all their friends about their kids. It depends on the people I guess. Now my mom is middle class and educated and it only seemed natural and expected of me not only to go to University but also to do post graduat studies.
At the first case there was great determination to send their kids to university but at the same time not all of my grandparents friends had this ambition for their kids. Many if not most didn't or even if they did the "climate" was not favorable. Many wanted their kids to go to work at the earliest possible (right after compulsory education or even before) and didn't talk about university at all.
At the second case I was expected to go to university and there was not the big effort my grandparents made for their kids. It was expected and natural that I'd go to that level of education. At the first case, this had a lot of effort and was considered success by my grandparents, at the second case, it was simply something natural but it would have been a family "catastrophy" (even if concealed from me) if I didn't make university.

I think both of you are right, in part.

[Japher]

I feel it's about pride. Pride inflicted on an individual by their peers. As long as "like" people continue to live in the same place these "peers" will always be the same with equal amounts of "success". Because of this people do not have all the "road maps" at hand to get to their desired "destinations", many don't even know that they have an option of where they want to end up.

Lots of people move from the poorer areas to the richer areas with acquisition of wealth for several reasons; better education for their offspring, better housing conditions, lower level of crime, etc. Yet, I think the most dominant of which is pride. They work hard to be able to make the move to the other side of the tracks, and by getting there they feel that they obtain that goal. Why would they want to move instead of better their neighborhood? Because they will be bashed/harrassed/ridiculedfor doing so, or it is too hard, and not worth it for people who do not hold similar values of "success".

One of my mantras is "you become the company you keep". Or, if you hang with a certain crowd, you are that crowd. Do I want to be successful in buisness? Yes. So, I hang out with people who are successful in buisness. Many people who live in the poorer areas do not want to be successful in buisness, or they don't want to put in the hard work that is required to be so. They would rather rap, sing, play ball, etc. rather than study. Not that rap, sing, play ball, etc. is not hard work it is just that the percentages of success are so small compared to those who will fail. Those who succeed leave to avoid being called sell-outs, and to avoid being pulled back into the abyss of poverty by keeping such company.

How to fix this? Not by AA, that's for sure. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. You can open all the doors in the world, but why would anyone go through them when they have no care for what is on the other side?

Apart from AA being wrong because of it being racist, it is also wrong because it addresses the wrong issue. It addresses discrimination based on race when it should be addressing discrimination based on economic status, which is the real burden on todays society. More effort should be given to helping communities grow, not helping individuals leave those communities. More effort should be given to increasing the level of the sytem of education, not increasing an individual's stake in that system. By doing so, encouraging the right things, people will not be forced to leave their communities because they no longer share the same values, instead the values of the community - as a whole - will increase.

Maybe one day it would be acceptable to have a rapper who did not come from "the hood" idolized.

[Al B. Sure!]

Many wanted their kids to go to work at the earliest possible (right after compulsory education or even before) and didn't talk about university at all.

i dont think i have ever encountered any real parent who didn't want their children to go to college, paiktis. the problem is that real parents are such a rarity. at best you got a single mother working two jobs who has no time for her children and her child, therefore, going to anything but community college seems unrealistic (when in fact, it actual is likely if they try).

the thing is though, i'm positive 80% of the people I know could graduate from a 4 year college. I think I can sum up the average guy's academic career as getting A's and B's in high school but having bad behaviour demerits and suspensions lowering them down... dropping out senior year then taking and passing their GED then working minimum wage for their late teens and 20's (or getting arrested)... there is no reason however for this man to not succeed in any good college. Minimum wage jobs do require a certain level of hard-work so the work ethic is clearly there... most people get good grades in high school so thats there... why so few go to college? i really got no idea.

"Make sure my son okay, ****, that's the the mission
College tuition, hope he get accepted to Princeton
If not got his bail for prison" -AZ

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Minimum wage jobs do require a certain level of hard-work so the work ethic is clearly there... most people get good grades in high school so thats there... why so few go to college? i really got no idea.

Maybe it has to do with the family situation, as you hinted? Maybe many people end up accepting their situation at a low wage job as "natural" (not sure, but that's an hypothesis)? Maybe simply because it is urgent to find food and to leave the family home, and as such there's no time to study?

[Al B. Sure!]

Japher:

Many people who live in the poorer areas do not want to be successful in buisness

actually, aint it a fact that schools of business are some of the few schools at universities that have a significant number of blacks and hispanics?

Maybe one day it would be acceptable to have a rapper who did not come from "the hood" idolized

no... rap is the music of the lower middle class and poor.

[Al B. Sure!]

Maybe it has to do with the family situation, as you hinted? Maybe many people end up accepting their situation at a low wage job as "natural" (not sure, but that's an hypothesis)? Maybe simply because it is urgent to find food and to leave the family home, and as such there's no time to study?

yes spiffor... and note, it has nothing to do with economics... it's the fault of the degradation of the family brought on by pre-marital sex and drug use... if you actually care about people, you'd realize this and be a conservative.

"I emerged from it all without a stain on my shirt
You can blame my old earth, for the **** she instilled in me
Still with me, pain plus work
**** she made me milk this game for all it's worth" -Jay-Z

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
if you actually care about people, you'd realize this and be a conservative.

If the conservatives are pro-contraception, pro-sex ed, pro-abortion, and in against sending pot smokers and small dealers to jail ruining their lives, then I am a conservative

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor
If the conservatives are pro-contraception, pro-sex ed, pro-abortion, and in against sending pot smokers and small dealers to jail ruining their lives, then I am a conservative

nope, definitely not conservative.

=D

[Japher]

actually, aint it a fact that schools of business are some of the few schools at universities that have a significant number of blacks and hispanics?

I'm not sure of the numbers, but it wouldn't suprise me. By buisness, however, I meant successful through scholastic means... sorry for the confussion. I don't and haven't see a lot of people from poverish backgrounds studying their butts off to get good grades or strive for acedamic scholarships. Not saying there aren't any, just saying that it ain't what it is hyped. After all being a nerd isn't cool, and it IS about being cool, isn't it?

no... rap is the music of the lower middle class and poor.

Really? Man, all these poor and lower middle class people would be better off not spending their money on CDs to make these rappers rich then wouldn't they?

, it has nothing to do with economics... it's the fault of the degradation of the family brought on by pre-marital sex and drug use...

I totally agree with this. Yet, economics could be to blame for drug use, pre-marital sex, and the degradation of the family unit. It would be so much easier to plan your life and that of your children as well as stay off drugs (or appear to be) if you have money. Besides, lack of money causes much mental anguish that leads to emotional relief being found in such vices.

[Ben Kenobi]

Albert:

I find that interesting that you mention the fellow who deals drugs to get to college.

Does he not understand that he is not part of the solution? I find there is plenty of respect for a college degree where I live. I'm not sure about a college education.