Minorities Getting Better Education Than Other Kids

[Kuciwalker]

My point is, the indoctrination isn't the GOAL of school. It may happen, but it isn't supposed to. Indoctrination is a FLAW in the system, not a bonus.

[Bereta_Eder]

About that kid being black and not being able to find a summer job, I've read it in a Greek newspaper.
There's a controversial issue which has risen. It's a bit long to explain, it has to do with school parades and the right of the best student to carry the Greek flag during our 2 national holidays (28 October: the refusal to join the Axis and beating Italy in WW2 and 25 March the start of the liberation struggle from the Ottoman Empire).

The law says: the best student will carry the flag, representing his school. And this is being done in all cases, wether the child is Greek or is a foreigner without Greek nationality be that Albanian, American, Brazilian, Bulgarian, Pakistani etc. But there is a region in Northern Greece where the parents association has rebeled and says that a child (he is from Albania) should not carry the flag because the flag is a national symbol to which only people of Hellenic nationality should carry/give honours and that there must be another way to reward the best of the best.

So the article of the newspaper did a survey on many schools with lots of immigrant children, most are 1st generation immigrants and don't have the Greek nationality yet. There was a group of kids, one from Zair, the other from the US, the other from Georgia, Armenia etc. And the black kid said that he's been trying to get a summer job and couldn't. He said there was no racism otherwise, in his school by the young generations etc. However his failure to find a job somehow sounded my alarm bells off. Greece has received huge waves of immigrants from the Balkans and many other parts of the world and I don't know how "ready" we are for them.

[Spiffor]

I haven't seen anything in the 14th article about not giving advantages to some members of the population ("equal rights" doesn't mean "equal financial help" nor "equal education"). And I haven't seen anything about the deciding factor when giving said advantages.

If the 14th article prevents AA to exist, then you shouldn't subsidise anything specific. For example, giving aid to the victims of the San Diego fire would be unconstitutional because their "rights" wouldn't be equal

I'm no lawyer, but I think there are better ways for you to have a good case

I'm waiting for Imran. he'll know how to make AA look constitutional or anticonstitutional

[Solly]

Is being black an excuse for poor school performance? I don't think it is, but some people here may. Speak out.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Edit: Actually, Skywalker's posts are much more bollocks than Yavoon's. Yavoon is right when he's talking about the cultural gap.


Yavoon:
We agree that the ghetto culture sucks. I'm actually very much in favor of a "Kulturkampf" to basically get rid of the ghetto culture.

What I meant in my first paragraph was that it was much harder for people living in poor households to have good results at school. How come people who are born in poor families have a much harder time getting a good education than people who are born in rich families? Is this because the poor are genetically that stupider? Is this solely or mainly because of the "poor culture" of being lazy? I don't think so.

There are many reasons for having a bad performance at school, and culture is but one of them.
- You are the eldest of 5 and you must watch them while your lone mother is at work? Try study in these conditions.
- Your family can't pay for you to get a sufficient diet? Your working consitions are suddenly higher.
- You must bring money to the household? That's as much time you won't spend on learning.
- Your parents divorced and you are now emotionally weak? You'll have worse results at school.
There are many more socio-economic reasons which can explain failure at school. Culture is one of them and must be adressed too. But it would be blind of you to think culture is the main factor, let alone the only factor, which explains the educational gap between income ranges.

*yawn* I never once said it wasn't harder to get an education in a poor neighborhood. INFACT. I named the reason that not only is it harder, but its not going to change anytime soon.

ur examples are anomolous and easily overcome in the grand scheme. libraries are free, so are highschool. community college is almost free. so tahts basically savin up for 2 years of real college. state school is cheap.

IF a neighborhood didn't deal crack, didnt shoot each other in the streets at night, cared about their childs education....blah blah blah. then the cost of educating a person would be ridiculously low. u speak of but a fraction of the problem, I speak of the overriding symptom.

who are the ppl who MOST promote education and hard work as a means to succeed. those who have succeeded through educaiton and hard work. how many of them live in the ghetto? thats what I thought.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I haven't seen anything in the 14th article about not giving advantages to some members of the population ("equal rights" doesn't mean "equal financial help" nor "equal education"). And I haven't seen anything about the deciding factor when giving said advantages.

If the 14th article prevents AA to exist, then you shouldn't subsidise anything specific. For example, giving aid to the victims of the San Diego fire would be unconstitutional because their "rights" wouldn't be equal

I'm no lawyer, but I think there are better ways for you to have a good case

I'm waiting for Imran. he'll know how to make AA look constitutional or anticonstitutional

so being hit by a fire is the same as being born black now. that is cute.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor


My point is that you can't teach kids without indoctrinating them. And I much prefer having a State do that and get a cohesive society, rather than having micro-communities do that and have an imploded society.

wow thats really how the french think? holy gigantic idealogical gap batman. if I ran the country I would take the direction of the european union, spin 180 degrees and hit the gas(read: devolve federal power).

and u guys want some sort of hegemon's wet dream.

[Atahualpa]

I am with combat ingrid.

[Al B. Sure!]

I said that it's proven to be more difficult to get for example a summer job if you're black.

no... anyone can get a minimum wage part-time job no matter what the hell you are... maybe for some higher jobs it's more difficult but not no mcdonalds job.

However his failure to find a job somehow sounded my alarm bells off. Greece has received huge waves of immigrants from the Balkans and many other parts of the world and I don't know how "ready" we are for them.

huh? too much cheap labour= too few availible unskilled jobs= the one black teenager in all of greece has trouble finding an unskilled job=/(does not equal) greece is racist against blacks

who are the ppl who MOST promote education and hard work as a means to succeed. those who have succeeded through educaiton and hard work. how many of them live in the ghetto? thats what I thought.

therein is the problem... got rich and fled to the burbs. damn, can't you stay a while and help out?

but there are things that do help... religious groups are very influential and there's things like the amer-i-can organization.

[MrFun]

I bet if we can find some way to distribute most of the world's wealth to white, straight men, then they will never have to suffer persecution and discrimination like they do now.

Oh wait -- white straight men already own most of the world's wealth in resources and money.

never mind

[Al B. Sure!]

Spiffor:

these places suffer from being too much exposed to their own counter-culture, and too little to the mainstream culture. As a result, the values of hard work and hard learning are not valued as highly there.

yeah we don't value hard work and learning... yeah tell that to my man Brian who works full time and goes to high school to support his family now that his mom is out of work... tell that to my boy Stef who has been hussling his whole life, going to high school, playing varsity bball, working full time, and selling t-shirts and oils on the side... tell that to Jameelah who is a nurse and puts in 60 hrs a week at a minimum wage job in addition to nursing... tell that to Corey who is attending Northeastern University as a business major, got both an academic and a sports scholarship, and is studying to be a Luthern minister on the side... tell that to Latasha, Darryl, Teena, Lateef, Jamar, Wayne, Latanya, Nae'emah... ****ing come to my block and tell us that...

shut the hell up about **** you dont know about and how dare you diss my people.

[Spiffor]

I was talking at least from my experience with the French counter-culture. Many cases of school failure come from the fact that students don't value school and believe it to be a bourgeois thing, rather than a tool for success. There is an emphasis on easy money over hard-earned money in the French gangsta culture, and displays of such money are an integrative part of said culture.

It doesn't mean there aren't hard working people. It does mean there are fewer, at least among the youth.

Things may be different where you live. But let me ask you this question: did many of your classmates view school as the obvious way to be successful later, or did a significant share of your classmates prefer more underground ways to achieve success?

[Solly]

Oh wait -- white straight men already own most of the world's wealth in resources and money.

[Al B. Sure!]

Spiffor:

no one in America thinks getting an education is a bourgeious thing... some people do be like thats that cracker **** but they're never serious and really respect anyone who gets an education...

did many of your classmates view school as the obvious way to be successful later, or did a significant share of your classmates prefer more underground ways to achieve success?

everyone knows school is the way to get somewhere. in fact, whats ironic is how i know two guys who sell drugs in order to pay for college. in my signature, i mention one... at night, he puts a ****ing dub in his bookbag, goes down to south philly to catch the bus to jersey, does his transaction, and comes back for the morning commute, goes to class in the morning, sleeps the afternoon, and sets out again dealing...

he only ****s with weed because he don't want to get caught with a kilo or something and get a long ass bid. still, if he gets caught, jail-time and a record will really **** up his life. thats the problem...

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
he only ****s with weed because he don't want to get caught with a kilo or something and get a long ass bid. still, if he gets caught, jail-time and a record will really **** up his life. thats the problem...

I completely agree with you Speer. This sucks. I hope they'll be able to end their studies and find a good job without being caught

It's also good that everyone in America knows education is the only way to go, and that education is universally respected. I wish it cas the same here

Don't get me wrong, save for the serious members of the gangsta culture, many people do in fact believe in education, but at various degrees.
For example, I am the spawn of a teacher, and it is absolutely obvious in my mother's and my worldview that I need a university diploma. Had I failed university, that would have been an utter failure and shame for me and my mother. Now, if I was born in a worker's family, the simple fact of going to uni would likely be seen a success in itself; It would not have been the obvious.