Pope says condoms are no good against HIV

[Ben Kenobi]

So if one never marries (perhaps due to the fact that one thinks this very institution is redundant (not necesairly my view, but plenty of people see it this way) ), one is to stay a virgin forever???

alva,

If you're a christian, than yes.

[alva]

You want to abstain from sex? Simple, get married.

-

If you're a christian, than yes.

Not realistic, is it. But then again we are talking 'bout religion...* sigh *

Not to mention it being a pretty poor reason to get married in the first place, ah well, that has never happened I guess
There is absolutely not such a thing as a shotgun wedding, no sir...
No teenagers never eloped (sp?) to get married, nope that never happened either.
Then again, happiness never was a big concern to the church either.

[Dis]

religion has nothing to do with happiness

[alva]

I would classify spiritual ease of mind under happiness, at least you could do so.

[Ben Kenobi]

Not to mention it being a pretty poor reason to get married in the first place, ah well, that has never happened I guess.

People do this regardless of chastity.

As for happiness, chastity makes life much more simpler, much fewer worries. I am looking forward to when I get married, and I'm glad that I have waited so far.

Why would it feel burdensome if one has never known something else?

[Alinestra Covelia]

Originally posted by elijah
That your photo in your sig Alinestra?

If you mean my avatar, then yes - that's me. I was drunk and playing the brass bedknobs with a hammer and wrench, I think.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by MrFun
My point is, Dr. Strangelove, is that you're not going to get people to abstain from sex, anymore than you're going to get all drinkers from stopping their consumption of alcoholic drinks, just because sometimes, social ills emerges from alcoholic consumption.

But my point is that if you know that you're HIV infected then you should be aware that any sexual contact, even when using a condom, bears the risk of slowly killing your partner.
My next point is that I, as a physician, should be allowed to discuss the facts, i.e., that on average the use of condoms only reduces the risk of transmission by 50% (per episode of contact). I have been told in the past that I shouldn't be permitted to do this and have even been threatened with license revocation because some people consider dispensing such information to be discriminatory.
Having said that I must add that my usual approach as a practitioner is that I advocate the diligent use of condoms. I also feel that I'm entitled to advocate monogamy as the best choice. I have also at times advocated "manual sex" as a viable alternative for couples in which one or more of the partners is HIV infected. (If both partners are infected they still must use caution, because if one develops a drug resistant strain he can pass it to his consort, worsening the other's clinical condition.)

[MrFun]

Ok -- if you're specifically talking about just HIV/AIDS patients, then I understand that viewpoint.

But telling those who do not have HIV/AIDS to stop having sex because of the risk, even with condoms, is like . . .

well, I already made an analogy.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by MrFun
Ok -- if you're specifically talking about just HIV/AIDS patients, then I understand that viewpoint.

But telling those who do not have HIV/AIDS to stop having sex because of the risk, even with condoms, is like . . .

Yes, but in some places, like South Africa about 50% of the sexually active population is infected. In such places, if you treat the whole population as if they had the disease you're only half wrong.

[Alexander's Horse]

Hey Doc, how effective are condoms as a contraceptive? I'm not talking about a situation where the condom breaks.

[Odin]

You know, There is one good thing about the AIDS epidenic in Africa, it should slow population growth.

[Alexander's Horse]

oh yes, that's a good thing (not)

[Elok]

Well, from what I gather, not really. There are still a lot of people in South Africa who think AIDS can be cured by raping a virgin, so...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Shi:
Now I know why I'm so familiar with this material,

From HUMANAE VITAE, written by Pope Paul VI

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P6HUMANA.HTM

I regularly work with this when doing Catholic prolife apologetics.


This is the passage you are thinking of,

15. The Church, on the contrary, does not at all consider illicit the use of those therapeutic means truly necessary to cure diseases of the organism, even if an impediment to procreation, which may be foreseen, should result therefore, provided such impediment is not, for whatever motive, directly willed.[19]

"The Church is coherent with herself when she considers recourse to the infecund periods to be licit, while at the same time condemning, as being always illicit, the use of means directly contrary to fecundation, even if such use is inspired by reasons which may appear honest and serious."

A person with AIDS will not be cured from AIDS through use of a condom.

I'm not trying to be harsh, just trying to point out to an alternative for Catholics to the barrier method of birth control. I have spent a fair amount of time trying to sort this out precisely because of the differences between myself and Denise. I have no problem with barrier methods, while she would prefer to use natural family planning methods.

This ought to be the best option for Catholic couples.

Interestingly, ultra-orthodox Judaism, which generally does ban all means of birth control (and recourse to infecund periods doesnt work for them, due to purity laws) WILL allow such means in a case where pregnancy could endanger the life of the mother. The ban on birth control is based on the positive command to be fruitful and multiply, and not on any sense that its intrinsically wrong to interfere with nature.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by alva

You want to abstain from sex? Simple, get married.

-

If you're a christian, than yes.

Not realistic, is it. But then again we are talking 'bout religion...* sigh *

.

well again Ultra-orthodox judaism which also bans contraception, pre-marital sex, etc DOES encourage early marriage (generally around 18 to 20) and tends to enforce fairly rigid gender seperation on singles (whose marriages are generally arranged) im not Ultra-O , but it does seem a tad more realistic about human nature than the Catholic approach.