N.Y. Times Retracts Arnold Hitler Bombshell

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sprayber
I think the way California is doing the recall the election is stupid. Recalling the governor because people don't like him is using a good idea ( the power to recall) for bad purposes.

che, I think your saying the repulicans playing dirty is selective critizism. I know you don't like many dems either but dont be like Arianna Huffington and use it as an excuss to trash people. All of them are equally worthless. I watched the debate on TV and the only people there that actually talked about solutions were McClintock and the green canidate.

The recall thing has to be gotten under control before this becomes a trend..

Well, the Dems, in denoucing the recall, have skillfully ignored that they themselves have tried the recall before and have not succeeded. They tried to recall Reagan, for example.

More double-standard here.

As well, Democrats have said they will file a recall immediately if Schwarzenegger wins.

More double-standard.

The Dems are a despicable party.

[Sprayber]

I'm not defending the dems Ned. I'm saying it's a bad idea for anyone to do unless the person they are recalling has committed a crime. Unless the man as committed a crime the people should live with their choice and vote him out of office if and when he runs again.

[Ben Kenobi]

Blair is a minor, unimportant figure, actually. Despite the hoopla given by some about Blair being allowed to get away with writing fake stories because he is Black, several white writers who made up stories are still on the NYT's staff, including the yahoo who flogged the Whitewater and Wen Ho Lee stories which both turned out to be completely eroneous. These, however, were not released as October surprises.

I agree, the big deal is not Blair, but the journalistic integrity of the NY Times. This just further destroys their credibility.

As for the Republicans not playing fair, why are you bringing Texas into a California issue? Again, are they not Democratic candidates profiting from the recall, just like Ahnold?

[Dis]

you have to add Gary Coleman's votes in with that. It is clear that many people are dissatisfied with the current leadership and want other alternatives such as Gary Coleman and Gallager.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sprayber
I'm not defending the dems Ned. I'm saying it's a bad idea for anyone to do unless the person they are recalling has committed a crime. Unless the man as committed a crime the people should live with their choice and vote him out of office if and when he runs again.

The problem with this is that you have to take the issue of "fault" to court in addition to getting the required number of votes on a recall petition. If you think about it, that places the issue of "fault" in the courts when it really is a political decision that should remain totally with the people.

We need more democracy in the United States, not less.

[DanS]

I think this recall is a very good thing, although I think the number of signatures required should be higher.

Why does anybody fear people voting, if the vote is above-board? This is a democracy after all. If there is a recall of the recall, then the voters will say "enough of this recall stuff" and it will eventually not be tried unless in extreme circumstances.

Either way, it's all good. Don't sweat it.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Jack_www
Actually Japher the rate payers are paying for the contracts not the tax payers.

That's not entirely true. The ratepayers are paying for guarantees, loans and credit purchases on behalf of Southern California Edison and particularly PG&E, but taxpayers are stuck directly on a number of other items, including many of the Cal. Dept. of Water Resources "reliability contracts" and other purchase agreements.

There is also an indirect effect on all state and local tax and special purpose agency user fee payers, in that the drops in California's bond rating affect the interest rates on many existing and all future bonds where the state's bond rating is used. There are a few thousand such special purpose agencies in California, and although most of them use conditional property tax assessments and special improvement project assessments to guarantee the bonds they issue, they are stuck using the state's bond rating as the rating services don't want to separately rate most of those agencies.

All of this direct and indirect cost to the taxpayer is hard to track, because it's non-general fund obligations, so not in the formal budget approved by the legislature, but it exists and it is a part of the state's on-going operating costs and tax burden.

[Japher]

Thanks MtG...

Californian's pay more for everything. We are constantly getting screwed (at least lately) with elevated costs in everything from utilities to consumer goods. Companies just feel that can do this, for some reason. They say, hey, they have more money lets charge them more. Then they ignore cost of living standards and we get screwed... Even Microsoft was in on this game... I wonder how far the waters run...

I blame Davis!

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ned


Well, the Dems, in denoucing the recall, have skillfully ignored that they themselves have tried the recall before and have not succeeded. They tried to recall Reagan, for example.

More double-standard here.

As well, Democrats have said they will file a recall immediately if Schwarzenegger wins.

More double-standard.

The Dems are a despicable party.

And of course, the saintly party of God, mom, apple pie and the flag never resorts to double standards, inconsistency, dishonesty, or anything else underhanded to gain an advantage.

[DanS]

Hey, don't fault the GOP for successfully associating itself with God, apple pie and mom!

[Ben Kenobi]

We are constantly getting screwed (at least lately) with elevated costs in everything from utilities to consumer goods.

You still owe British Columbia cash for the electricity sold last year during all those brownouts. When the power companies went belly-up, they cancelled the outstanding Canadian contracts.

So I wouldn't complain about high electricity costs, if I were you.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


You still owe British Columbia cash for the electricity sold last year during all those brownouts. When the power companies went belly-up, they cancelled the outstanding Canadian contracts.

So I wouldn't complain about high electricity costs, if I were you.

Actually, that would be "PG&E owe[d] British Columbia" but US bankruptcy law allows bankrupt debtors to repudiate executory contracts. Something I'd assume the Canadian lawyers knew when they entered the deal.

[Ben Kenobi]

Actions have consequences...

I don't think BC's selling any more electricity to California power utilities. Why do business with a bad debt?

Less supply will start driving up the prices, as Japher is starting to notice.

We'd be happy to sell you folks lots of electricity. We'd just like to be paid at some point.

[Adam Smith]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The Repugs have started something ugly, which is now going to be used perpetually as a weapon by both sides. The recall succeeded because a million pumped millions of dollars in, hiring out of state consultants to gather signatures. Though it tapped into a deep dissatisfaction, I doubt it was capable of sustaining itself without money and outsiders.

First, if its in the state constitution, its a little hard to see how its playing dirty.
Second, in the last election in Maryland's 8th Cong dist (where I live), more than 2/3 of the Democrat money came from out of state. Unfortunately they succeeded in unseating a moderate Republican incumbent.
Third, if it were up to me I would toughtn the criteria for recall, and not vote for this one.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Adam Smith
Second, in the last election in Maryland's 8th Cong dist (where I live), more than 2/3 of the Democrat money came from out of state

Can't say that Democratic shenanigans have me at ease either.