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prove to me that communism isn't immoral as heck
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Communism isn't immoral. Nor is capitalism. People are."The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
--George Bernard Shaw
A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
--Woody Allen
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Morality is subjective and useless in this question.
Very bad troll. If you want to critique communism (economic), use an economic argument, i.e. planned vs libertarian."I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
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The major gripe I have against communism (or rather, stalinism, communism is too broad and even can encompass right wing liberalism), is economic. Which system gives the better economy? Economic argument is born thus."I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: prove to me that capitalism isn't immoral as heck
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Curiousity is wrong.
Mark Twain captured it best when he said the morals of capitalism were "To get rich, illegally if we can, legally if we must." At no point have capitalists has any qualms about using coerced labor.
People go out of business because they make moer than they can sell.... And that's just insane.
Of course the small farmer in most developed countries has been supported on the verge of collapse by government grants. If they hadn't been then by now the agricultural industry would probably be controlled by corporations, who would have the sense to do some sort of forecasting of supply and demand, and choose the best land for exploitation rather than using it because that's the way daddy did it.
Oversupply is also a relatively minor problem in most industries outside farming and logging. Marx's predictions here are false, IMHO.
Ultimately, the question isn't do we want socialism or capitalism. Capitalism will eventually be replaced. The question is, with what, socialism or barbarism?Sorry, I don't see capitalism collapsing into a state of barbarism. In theory it should even be able to outgrow the emerging environmental problems.
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Originally posted by elijah
The major gripe I have against communism (or rather, stalinism, communism is too broad and even can encompass right wing liberalism), is economic. Which system gives the better economy? Economic argument is born thus.
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Maybe a good Idea would be to limit the amount of Property and Money which Parents can leave for their Offspring.
There's nothing moral about capitalism.
So do not hold up Businessmen as the failures of Capitalism. Have you ever heard of someone being a Capitalist?
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An interesting side note, you Communists make an interesting double standard, declaring that to view the realistic Communism that emerged in Eastern Europe is unfair to Communism, while also declaring that we should judge phenomenal (as opposed to noumenal) Capitalism.
You are saying they are not working?
No, we oppose capitalism because it is extremely wasteful, bot of resources and of lives
Morality is subjective.
thats why u have capitalism w/ rules.Read Blessed be the Peacemakers | Read Political Freedom | Read Pax Germania: A Story of Redemption | Read Unrelated Matters | Read Stains of Blood and Ash | Read Ripper: A Glimpse into the Life of Gen. Jack Sterling | Read Deutschland Erwachte! | Read The Best Friend | Read A Mothers Day Poem | Read Deliver us From Evil | Read The Promised Land
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Originally posted by SKILORD
I can't see what you mean? How could a system dedicated to profit, cutting corners and so forth, be seen as wasteful?
The problem is that the workers won't stand up for themselves, and so they abuse the powers of government by abusing the system of popular government into coercing the businessmen. However, as recent history proves, not all workers have decided to do so and there are still workers who ill not defend themselves; even in the cowardly and statist way.
Bosses do a hell of a lot to make sure workers won't defend themselves. In the 3rd world, they'll have them beaten and killed (here too if they can get away with it). They threaten to move plants out of the state or country. They threaten to fire organizers. They hire strike breaking firms. They use propaganda. They use the state to outlaw most effective methods of workers defense. And they call us traitors or loonies, so workers won't even listen to alternative points of view on winning the class struggle.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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Because what is wasteful from a profit point of view isn't necessarily wasteful from an: environmental, social, or resource point of view.
And they call us traitors or loonies, so workers won't even listen to alternative points of view on winning the class struggle.Read Blessed be the Peacemakers | Read Political Freedom | Read Pax Germania: A Story of Redemption | Read Unrelated Matters | Read Stains of Blood and Ash | Read Ripper: A Glimpse into the Life of Gen. Jack Sterling | Read Deutschland Erwachte! | Read The Best Friend | Read A Mothers Day Poem | Read Deliver us From Evil | Read The Promised Land
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Originally posted by Curiosity
I didn't say it was. I said that that's a problem with capitalism.
In theory one ought to be able to design a form of government where it's not such a problem, and since it would involve a planned economy it would probably be classed as communism. But, clearly, nothing like past experiments would be any better.Read Blessed be the Peacemakers | Read Political Freedom | Read Pax Germania: A Story of Redemption | Read Unrelated Matters | Read Stains of Blood and Ash | Read Ripper: A Glimpse into the Life of Gen. Jack Sterling | Read Deutschland Erwachte! | Read The Best Friend | Read A Mothers Day Poem | Read Deliver us From Evil | Read The Promised Land
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It is interesting that the communists primarily defend communism by attacking capitalism and the capitalists defend capitalism by attacking prior examples of communism. But, with few exceptions, even communists do not defend the prior examples of communism, while all capitilists point with pride to the success of capitalist systems.
The only successful communist society is that portrayed in the Star Trek series which presupposes that all essentials are supplied by machines. I used to like Star Trek for its "realism." However, I now think that it is extremely unreal in its protrayal of a future society.http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
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