prove to me that communism isn't immoral as heck

[chequita guevara]

Communism = free beer.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Zero
This topic is boring. Lets talk about Baseball playoffs!

GO TWINS!

But it is fun to bonk capitalist heads.

[Odin]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Communism = free beer.

[Jules]

Originally posted by Odin


GO TWINS!

The Tigers beat 'em!

[Odin]

Originally posted by Jules

The Tigers beat 'em!

So? we already clinched the division.

[SKILORD]

Why is Communism Immoral?

There are several fundamental problems with the very concept of such government. A Dictatorship of the Proletariot can never truely be democratic, I don't care if every member of the Proletariot is allowed a vote, even if they are allowed a vote free of Party influence they decree their will upon the minority.

Democracy is not only founded upon Majority Rule, but also upon Minority Rights. We must ensure basic civil liberties in order to maintain order. In a Society bred of violent revolt, born of the presupposition that might makes right, you have no civil liberties. You have Mob Rule. Ideal Communism will fade to such tyrrany of the masses which the American founders decided would be tragic. If I can take the land of the rich then what protects the land of my brother?

Even without the corrupt elitism of Party Politics (Inescapable since such a party of core agitators is required for revolution) Communism will treat those outside the 'elite group' (Proletariot) as nonpersons. If you can discriminate against one man then why not another? The Basis of communism is generalizations, making men faceless. Without faces, without distinction, men are not men. You cannot respect a generalization. A racist spits at other races because he sees not a man, but a flesh tone. A Communist jeers at the wealthy because he sees not a man, but wealth. Wealth which he desires and which he aims to take by use of force.

I spit on your covetousness, I spit on your jests. I spit on you each as individuals, not as a mass. I spit on your dogma, your blind faith in the righteousness of the strong.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by mrmitchell
Society is slavery. I wanted to be born into a society where I could walk up to a Senator and repeatedly slap him with a banana. But did I get in that society? No! I was forced into this one!

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by SKILORD
There are several fundamental problems with the very concept of such government.

Fundamentally, communism is not a political system.

Originally posted by SKILORD
A Dictatorship of the Proletariot can never truely be democratic, I don't care if every member of the Proletariot is allowed a vote, even if they are allowed a vote free of Party influence they decree their will upon the minority.

Democracy is always the tyranny of the majority. What's the difference?

[MrFun]

anyone want to play a game of . . .

[PLATO]

Originally posted by MrFun
anyone want to play a game of . . .

I want to be the little boat piece.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by PLATO
Baloney! Most people's abilities? Who do you exclude from the "most people" in a communist society. What about the person who can produce more (or less)?

Exceptions are mostly of people who can produce less due to a variety of conditions such as diseases, mental disorders, and so forth.

Originally posted by PLATO
In addition, every persons work does produce value...and that value differs greatly.

Value is not the same as $$$. How do you assign $$$ to work such as protecting the environment?

Originally posted by PLATO
I have been managing people for over 15 years and the one thing I know for sure is that their production levels vary drastically. How does a communist society reconcile this?

They do? I think the Bell Curve must be tossed out the window, then.

Assign two eligible person randomly to identical tasks in identical environments, their productivity is extremely likely to be similar.

[MrFun]

I think I know what Chegitz wants . . .

[MrFun]

Originally posted by PLATO


I want to be the little boat piece.

No -- everyone gets the same game piece for this game, to prevent any status differentiation among players.

The game piece is a piece of dog sh*t.

[Nubclear]

prove to me that capitalism isn't immoral as heck

Originally posted by skywalker
Here's your chance. Explain why what I'm about to say is wrong.

Communism is immoral, because it is slavery. I produce a commodity, my labor. I sell that commodity in exchange for money. If you require that I give that money to other people who have less money, then you are really requiring me to give my labor, without compensation, to them. Thus, I am their slave. Slavery is immoral.

Here's your chance. Explain why what I'm about to say is wrong.

Capitalism is immoral because it is slavery. Someone produces a commodity, and begins to manufature it. As they hire more and more workers, they begin to branch out. They begin putting down factories in other countries like China or India or Burma, where they force workers to work for a few cents each day. They cannot leave lest they starve, thus they are the corperations slaves. Slavery is immoral.

(And, just for effect: ) I spit on your covetousness, I spit on your jests. I spit on you each as individuals, not as a mass. I spit on your dogma, your blind faith in the righteousness of the strong.

I know, it's a really bad troll BUT.....So were they

[PLATO]

Originally posted by SKILORD
Why is Communism Immoral?

There are several fundamental problems with the very concept of such government. A Dictatorship of the Proletariot can never truely be democratic, I don't care if every member of the Proletariot is allowed a vote, even if they are allowed a vote free of Party influence they decree their will upon the minority.

Democracy is not only founded upon Majority Rule, but also upon Minority Rights. We must ensure basic civil liberties in order to maintain order. In a Society bred of violent revolt, born of the presupposition that might makes right, you have no civil liberties. You have Mob Rule. Ideal Communism will fade to such tyrrany of the masses which the American founders decided would be tragic. If I can take the land of the rich then what protects the land of my brother?

Even without the corrupt elitism of Party Politics (Inescapable since such a party of core agitators is required for revolution) Communism will treat those outside the 'elite group' (Proletariot) as nonpersons. If you can discriminate against one man then why not another? The Basis of communism is generalizations, making men faceless. Without faces, without distinction, men are not men. You cannot respect a generalization. A racist spits at other races because he sees not a man, but a flesh tone. A Communist jeers at the wealthy because he sees not a man, but wealth. Wealth which he desires and which he aims to take by use of force.

I spit on your covetousness, I spit on your jests. I spit on you each as individuals, not as a mass. I spit on your dogma, your blind faith in the righteousness of the strong.

Skilord, I think that most of the communist here support the ideal and not the practical application. Just as the majority in capitalist-democratic countries can get out of control, so to can the minority in communist countries. The communist system, which mandates someone or group of someones to decide what the people's abilities and wants are, is far to subject to corruption to suceed. Capitalist-Democratic countries appear to have a better chance of keeping corruption from becoming crippiling.