Ratin' Trudeau...

[SpencerH]

Back in the day, :understatement:I wasnt a big fan of Pierre :understatement:. But I can say from first-hand knowledge that while he was an arrogant bastard he was no fool. Nearly 20 years later though he's a shining beacon compared to the mediocre lot that have been PM since him. As for the effects of his policies, I dont have to live with them so ----- no comment.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Hardly. Treeplanters are maybe 6 months behind the loggers.

Uh huh. And that statistic is from whom? The forestry industry, which of course would never lie, or the government that has cut its workforce by 30%?

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
The problem is not the available resources, but the horrible deals for lumber. We can hardly ship enough wood, and we have to pay a 30% duty for all wood shipped to the US.


Yes, that's been a common complaint that we do not produce enough 'value-added' projects. We're working on it. Since we are so good at shipping 2x4s it is going to take time to change.

Here's the thing I don't understand. Why do we want to ship cheap, low quality 2x4s when we could be using the lumber to manufacturer high quality products that involve create more jobs. During the Trudeau era, 30 years ago, we complained about our economy being too focused on the primary industry - just hewers of wood. We're still caught in this trap.

In the early 1990s, I interviewed a guy who owned a factory that made window frames for export to Japan. He had to shut down his factory for two months during the summer because he couldn't get enough high quality lumber. Why? Because people in B.C. think it is a great thing to ship cheap 2x4s to the US.

Last I heard, he was still having the same problems.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Anyhow, we are just starting to tap our oil and gas reserves, particularly off the coast of BC. Just a matter of whether the treehuggers will let us use these resources.

Oh great. Another primary industry. And with the way the government manages our forests, we know they'll do such a fine job with oil off the coast.

Well, at least it will create secondary jobs -- oil spill clean up crews.

[Odin]

You Canadians have to get over your regionalist BS, You guys are acting like the southern US just before our civil war, You don't see us Minnesotans getting mad because other states make some $$$ off our iron. Why do canadian provences think they are independent counties? You guys need to give your national government more teeth so you don't have this bickering.

[Ben Kenobi]

Uh huh. And that statistic is from whom? The forestry industry, which of course would never lie, or the government that has cut its workforce by 30%?

Personal experience. I worked as a treeplanter, and this is what my boss said when I asked him this question.

We planted one cutblock in August that had been cut earlier that summer.

We're still caught in this trap.

Like I said, we have massive investment in making 2x4s quickly and efficiently. It's going to take time to redirect some of this investment to other areas.

Well, at least it will create secondary jobs -- oil spill clean up crews.

Funny how most of the opposition comes not from the locals who are starved for jobs, but from affluent Vancouverites who have never stepped foot in the bush.

If we have hibernia off Newfoundland, why can't we do the same in BC?

You guys need to give your national government more teeth so you don't have this bickering.

Expressed bickering is better than hidden resentment. We just want to improve things within Canada rather than to leave.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Sending tanks to Quebec to deal with the FLQ. Invoking the notwithstanding clause to do so.

a) One of the sadder days for Canadian democracy
b) You don't know what you're talking about, because:

i) The notwithstanding clause has never been invoked by the federal government; it has been invoked once by the Saskatchewan government and twice by the Quebec government

ii) The notwithstanding clause didn't exist in 1970

c) Assuming you mean the War Powers Act, then please explain what other legal justification for sending the Canadian military against Canadian civilians he could have conjured up. The War Powers Act excuse was flimsy enough

As for the man himself, I'll give him a for most everything except the October Crisis. This includes the NEP, as it's always a worthwhile cause to annoy Westerners.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk


Why don't we (Americans) ever have conversations like this about, say, West Virginia or Arkansas?

Because you ****ed up and gave every state two senators, a blatantly undemocratic move.

[Ben Kenobi]

Krazyhorse,

A bit slow on the trigger.

Now why did I put that?

I should have said imposing martial law.

[KrazyHorse]

oops.

[KrazyHorse]

I'll give him a 7 based purely on the fact that he was the only interesting PM we've ever had.

[KrazyHorse]

That and the fact that Nixon used to call him "that clever French bastard".

Sweet.

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Odin
You Canadians have to get over your regionalist BS, You guys are acting like the southern US just before our civil war, You don't see us Minnesotans getting mad because other states make some $$$ off our iron. Why do canadian provences think they are independent counties? You guys need to give your national government more teeth so you don't have this bickering.

Which part of "Canadian Confederation" do you have problems understanding? Up here in Canada, we are not big fans of Big Government.:P

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Personal experience. I worked as a treeplanter, and this is what my boss said when I asked him this question.

We planted one cutblock in August that had been cut earlier that summer.

Just because one area was being replanted doesn't mean the same applies to the entire province.

Besides, replanting is not the only part of creating a sustainable forestry industry. The problem is that BC could be chopping down so many trees that there will be a gap before the next batch is ready.

And the even bigger problem is that we don't have a big picture of how many trees are being cut.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Like I said, we have massive investment in making 2x4s quickly and efficiently. It's going to take time to redirect some of this investment to other areas.

They've been saying that for the past 30 years, all the while they were installing new equipment to increase production of 2x4s.

Ironically, the US softwood tariff could be a blessing in disguise. It could force the BC forestry industry to switch to high value, more labour-intensive products. That would benefit BC's economy a lot more than just chopping down trees as fast as possible.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Funny how most of the opposition comes not from the locals who are starved for jobs, but from affluent Vancouverites who have never stepped foot in the bush.

Ya got things backwards. The environmentalists are the good guys. The affluent Vancouverites who never go into the bush (the ones who think going to Whistler is roughing it) are the VSE scam artists looking to make a quick buck from the oil and gas fields.

Oil-gas scam is just another repeat of the "This mega project is going to make us all rich". That's what they said about the hydro damns, that's what they said about Alcan, that's what the scam artists say about every great mine they "discover".

The last thing BC needs is another boom-bust mega project.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
If we have hibernia off Newfoundland, why can't we do the same in BC?

BC still has a fishing industry.

[notyoueither]

Not much of a fishing industry.

I have to disagree with some people though. I think stomping on the FLQ with the army was one of the best things Trudeau could have done. The bull**** stopped real quick.

[SpencerH]

One thing that always made me laugh about Trudeau was his tactic in question period of answering in french to members of the house who only spoke english.

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Not much of a fishing industry.

I have to disagree with some people though. I think stomping on the FLQ with the army was one of the best things Trudeau could have done. The bull**** stopped real quick.

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