Ratin' Trudeau...

[Tingkai]

Declaring martial law to deal with a bunch of kidnappers, thereby creating massive support for separatism (and Ben, it had nothing to do with the notwithstanding clause which came 10 years later in the constitution)

Destroying the military.

The first wage and price controls

The second attempt (more flexible)

Pushing through the constitution.

Giving into Alberta's demand for a notwithstanding clause.

Pushing through the NEP (politically stupid)

Legalising abortion.

Eliminating capital punishment.

Giving the finger to Western protesters.

Making multiculturalism official

Bilingualism

Overall: ----

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, it had nothing to do with the notwithstanding clause which came 10 years later in the constitution)

Now why did I put that?

I should have said imposing martial law.

[notyoueither]

:choke: I have to agree with Tingkai about 80%.

Although, the damage done to Quebec and Canada by the seperatist movement in Quebec, the near success of which I lay mostly at Trudeau's door step, leads me to conclude he was a disaster for Canada overall.

Other leaders would have done something about abortion. Other leaders would have moved Canada on the milticulturalism front, most likely.

I doubt other leaders would have been so arrogant in their handeling of Quebec and the West. I don't see ripping up a country to feed one's ego to be a good thing.

[Odin]

By what I have heard about Trudeau, he was the model liberal. He "Screwed" western Canada because it is full of conservatives who deseved to get screwed.

BTW: what is NEP?

[Odin]

4 out of 10 people have given him a 0! How dare they!

[Asher]

Originally posted by Odin
BTW: what is NEP?

National Energy Policy.

Screwed Alberta out of the resource revenue that it was promised in 1932(?) by sending the revenue out East, and attempted to nationalize Canadian oil by driving out foreign (American) investors, which single-handedly tanked the Alberta economy for years, until the NEP was repealed by a new conservative government.

"Model Liberal" indeed.

The NEP is one of the main reasons the Liberals are resented so much in Alberta, it clearly shows where their priorities lie.

[Odin]

He nationalized Oil? Good! I hate Alberta anyway, too conservative. Oh and promises made in the 30's ain't worth crap in this day and age.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Odin
He nationalized Oil? Good! I hate Alberta anyway, too conservative. Oh and promises made in the 30's ain't worth crap in this day and age.

By "promise" I mean legal recognition that it is Alberta's resource, and not Canada's.

It means just as much today as any other law or legal issue that was not overturned.

Somebody ought to explain how laws work to you.

Alberta's so conservative because Alberta is rich. If you had money you wouldn't want some Frenchie in Ottawa spending it on building a roof for a stadium in Montreal that collapses constantly, or funding the welfare checks of 25% of the population of Newfoundland which are unemployed but refuse to do anything about it.

[cinch]

Originally posted by Asher

Alberta's so conservative because Alberta is rich. If you had money you wouldn't want some Frenchie in Ottawa spending it on building a roof for a stadium in Montreal that collapses constantly, or funding the welfare checks of 25% of the population of Newfoundland which are unemployed but refuse to do anything about it.

Whoa, whoa, whoa... I'm no fan of the NEP, either, but let's not totally dismiss transfer payments off hand, here. There will come a time when the tables will be turned, and Alberta will need to be propped up by some other region, and then we'll all be glad that the system is the way it is.

The NEP went overboard, but I still think there's nothing wrong with a little opportunity equalisation.

[cinch]

Originally posted by Odin
He nationalized Oil? Good! I hate Alberta anyway, too conservative.

Hey, don't paint us all with the same brush!

There are, like, one or two Liberal ridings here... and I happen to be in one of them. Which makes me feel dirty. But not as dirty as if I was in an Alliance constituency.

[Asher]

Originally posted by cinch
Whoa, whoa, whoa... I'm no fan of the NEP, either, but let's not totally dismiss transfer payments off hand, here. There will come a time when the tables will be turned, and Alberta will need to be propped up by some other region, and then we'll all be glad that the system is the way it is.

The NEP went overboard, but I still think there's nothing wrong with a little opportunity equalisation.

Give me a break...Alberta and Ontario are the only two "have" provinces in Canada, and it's been that way for decades. Everyone leaches off those two provinces, and it ain't helping the other ones get anywhere.

Transfer payments are bull**** and I'd not shed a tear if they vanished.

Why should well-off regions continue to waste money in useless regions like Newfoundland? I'd be happy to help fund those people to relocate, I just hate seeing money go down that black hole because some *******s don't wanna move to where the jobs are.

[cinch]

Originally posted by Asher

Give me a break...Alberta and Ontario are the only two "have" provinces in Canada, and it's been that way for decades. Everyone leaches off those two provinces, and it ain't helping the other ones get anywhere.

And decades = forever? As for the effect: it's keeping people off the streets; keeping food on their tables.

Transfer payments are bull**** and I'd not shed a tear if they vanished.

Until the last drop of oil is vanquished.

Why should well-off regions continue to waste money in useless regions like Newfoundland? I'd be happy to help fund those people to relocate, I just hate seeing money go down that black hole because some *******s don't wanna move to where the jobs are.

So you favour a total evacuation of the Maritimes? PLENTY of Easterners come where the jobs are; ALL of them can't.

The fact is: things change, circumstances are altered. Alberta could find itself near the bottom eventually, and then we'll be crying for help. Best to help those in need of it now, so that when the tables are turned, they might just do the same for us.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
Alberta's so conservative because Alberta is rich. If you had money you wouldn't want some Frenchie in Ottawa spending it on building a roof for a stadium in Montreal that collapses constantly, or funding the welfare checks of 25% of the population of Newfoundland which are unemployed but refuse to do anything about it.

Stan Rogers note about his 1981 song Free in the Harbour: "Someone recently told me there are more Newfoundlanders in Edmonton than there are in St. John's. I met one of them, a fellow from Hermitage Bay, who was working on an oil rig somewhere in Alberta. Blackfish are small whales."

Part of the song goes:

It's at Portage and Main You'll see them again
On their way to the hills of Alberta.
With lop-side grins, they waggle their chins
and they brag of the wage they'll be earning.
Then it's quick, pull the string boys, and get the loot out,
Haul it away! Haul it away!
But just two years ago you could hear the same shout
Where the whales make free in the harbour.

Well, it's living they've found, deep in the ground,
And if there's doubts, it's best they ignore them.
Nor think on the bones, the crosses and stones
Of their fathers that came there before them.
In the taverns of Edmonton, fishermen shout
Haul it away! Haul it away!
They left three hundred years buried up the Bay
Where the whales make free in the harbour.

Free in the harbour; the blackfish are sporting again
Free in the harbour; untroubled by comings and goings of men
Who once did persue them as oil from the sea,
Hauling away! Hauling away!
Now they're Calgary roughnecks from Hermitage Bay,
Where the whales make free in the harbour.

[Asher]

Originally posted by cinch
And decades = forever? As for the effect: it's keeping people off the streets; keeping food on their tables.

It's keeping people in regions that don't have a job market to support them, is what it's doing.

Until the last drop of oil is vanquished.

Look at the rate of diversification of the Alberta economy. 30% of the GDP was oil 10 years ago, it's down to 20% now. You should know that Ralphie's on a huge diversification kick.

So you favour a total evacuation of the Maritimes? PLENTY of Easterners come where the jobs are; ALL of them can't.

If all of them were unemployed, I'd sure hope they figure out it'd be best to move somewhere.

The people with jobs don't need to move, the ones that have been unemployed for four years and living off of money from welfare ought to look into moving, don't you think?

The fact is: things change, circumstances are altered. Alberta could find itself near the bottom eventually, and then we'll be crying for help. Best to help those in need of it now, so that when the tables are turned, they might just do the same for us.

And who would help Alberta? Nova Scotia? PEI? Newfoundland?

The fact is, it's highly unlikely Alberta will be classified as a "have not" province, even if the oil dried up right now. The gap between Alberta and all of the other provinces is simply enormous.


If Alberta implemented a provincial sales tax like all of the other provinces, or had provincial income tax near the levels of the other provinces, that bar would even be quite a bit longer for Alberta.

[cinch]

It's keeping people in regions that don't have a job market to support them, is what it's doing.

Many Easterners come out West or to Ontario or B.C. for work. As I said, just not ALL of them.

Look at the rate of diversification of the Alberta economy. 30% of the GDP was oil 10 years ago, it's down to 20% now. You should know that Ralphie's on a huge diversification kick.

Oh, yes, I know, you've lectured me on this before, but I maintain that no matter how ironclad Klein's schemes are, he can't insure perpetual Albertan dominance.

The people with jobs don't need to move, the ones that have been unemployed for four years and living off of money from welfare ought to look into moving, don't you think?

Generalizatios, Ho!
1. Again, many Maritimers do move to find work.
2. Equalization payments don't just support lazy slobs; even the people who do have work aren't raking in the big bucks, for the simple reason that the anchor industry isn't quite as lucrative as Alberta's.

And who would help Alberta? Nova Scotia? PEI? Newfoundland?

Yes.