WWII Hypothetical: The Mediterranean Strategy

[Saras]

Heritage of baron von Sacher-Masoch?

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


If Franco had let them starve theyd have rebelled again, and Franco and Hitler would have faced a guerilla war, threatening Germanys supply lines for its assault on Gibraltar. Not that the supply lines were that great to begin with.

What nonsense

Contrary to the Hollywood myths partisan activity was never much more than a bit of an irritant for the Axis with a couple of exceptions.

Franco shot or jailed just about everyone who could mounted a serious threat to his regime before the war even started.

Following the fascist economic policy of autarky, he also kept most of the population on the edge of poverty and starvation right up until the 1960's and yet no serious threat to his rule ever emerged.

[Dr Strangelove]

Something everyone is forgetting is that the Nazis were acutely aware of the growth of Stalin's armed forces. They knew that the purges of the 1930s had greatly weakened the Soviet army, and that the bulk of Soviet equipment, tanks and planes were still obsolete in 1941. The Soviets were rapidly replacing their officer corps and replacing their obsolete tanks with the formidable T-34. New airplanes were on the designing board also. Hitler calculated that if he were to have a chance to defeat Stalin he would have to do so by 1941 at the latest. This was probably the real reason why Germany never seriously pursued the invasion of Britain or he conquest of North Africa - there simply wsn't enough time.

If Hitler had put off his invasion of Russia, then, well, there must have been a reason for Stalin's massive military build up. Germany might well have found itself fighting a defensive war in the east. Another consideration that must have entered his mind was that the subjugation of Russia was one of his main goals, second only to the eradication of European Jewery. If he waited too long Stalin's army might have become too strong to overcome, and then he would never realize his dreams. You know that man Hitler, he always was a dreamer. "Springtime for Hitler"?

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


It's been mentioned earlier in the thread, the reasons for the Japanese Southern strategy, to get oil and rubber from Indonesia, since the American Oil Embargo seriously weakened the Japanese military.

Look on a map. How are you going to get to Indonesia, or the Dutch East Indies from Japan? You have to go through the Phillippines, and through good ol' General McArthur.

Just because the Japanese bring the Americans into the war in Dec of 1941 has very little bearing on the Germans IF the Nazis can knock out Britain. A British surrender, and we may see an American return to an Isolationist policy since Germany did not threaten American territories.

Now, looking at France, the Germans under Hitler did not need to conquer all of France to force a surrender, just part of the country, what would be the breaking point of Britain?

There are two ways that I see, either would work if applied consistently. You can go through the Mediterreanean or you can do an all-out blitz and pull the trigger on Operation Sealion.

Supply seems to be the biggest problem with the Mediterreanean scenario, and is not a problem with operation Sealion. All you need here is the control of the Channel, which I don't believe the Nazis were able to accomplish.

After finishing France, how long would it take for Hitler to group enough forces for an invasion of Britain?

Yeah, Japan was resource starved.

But I mean, SURELY there was a better and more creative way that they could have come up with more resources. I would think it would have only slowed down the pace of their advances, not leading to their defeat. Nobody was even a threat to them at the time.

Taking on the most resource rich nation on the entire planet in order to try and get more resources is kinda a big net loss.

[Alexander's Horse]

The facts are right Doc but the analysis isn't quite. Hitler believed an attack on the Soviet Union would be an easy victory, for a number of reasons including ideological.

His famous quote in 1940 when explaining decision to his generals was, "kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will collapse".

[Drake Tungsten]

His famous quote in 1940 when explaining decision to his generals was, "kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will collapse".

It very well could have if the psycho had held the Einsatzgruppen back and let the Russians embrace the Germans as liberators. Should've saved the extermination of the untermensch for after the war.

[Ted Striker]

Yeah he could have added a couple of million fighters to his ranks.

[Frozzy]

Even if Britain fell, Churchill would just continue the war from Canada :shrug:

[Alexander's Horse]

and we all know what a fearsome power Canada is.....

[Ben Kenobi]

Hey!

We had the third largest navy by the end of the Second World War.

Just because we have a weak military now, does not mean that Canada has always had a small military.

But I mean, SURELY there was a better and more creative way that they could have come up with more resources.

Not that many sources of oil and rubber. Without either one, your vaunted war machine grinds to a halt.

[Ted Striker]

Back in WW2 I was a Sea Man!

[Sikander]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


You mean the Cape of Good Hope. Cape Horn is tip of South America.

IIRC mostly they went around Good Hope in OTL (original time line, IE actual history)

I was actually referring to the Horn of Africa, but you make a good point.