WWII Hypothetical: The Mediterranean Strategy

[Jack_www]

This I think would have lead to Germany winning the war in the end. Since they could not attack Britain directly they could do it by attack Britain's colonies and crush them slowly that way. Also they would not be fighting a war on two fronts and would help focus on geting the suez canal. This was way more do able then trying to attack Russia when Germany was still at war with Britain and latter the United States.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
My God some of you people are so ignorant of the basic facts of the war.

The Germans threw 200 divisions at the Soviet Union in June 1941.

At that time in the Mediterranian the sum total of British forces was like 10 divisions max, probably more like 5 but I'd have to look it up. Of those divisions, about 3 were battle worthy. One of them was Australian.

Rommel almost expelled Britain from Egypt with German 3 divisions and a couple of Italian divisions. What would he have done with 10 German divisions? Or even 5?

win at el alamein, take Alexandria, find that the port facilities have been destroyed by the brits. Run out of fuel. Wait for the port to be repaired (with equipment and supplies brought overland from Libya on deficient transport network. Maybe he can close the Suez canal. He cant get much further, relying on overland transport to Iraq. And if he waits long the brits will blow up the Iraqi oil facilities (which Germany doesnt have the resources to quickly fix) Meanwhile Operation Torch is happening in NorthWest Africa.

Now if you're talking 1940, that at least gives him more time before Torch. But still very difficult logistical problems, the likelihood of oil facilities destroyed, etc. And taking the canal still leaves open the route around africa to India and Australia. Which is mainly what the Brits used after 1940, IIRC.

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


win at el alamein, take Alexandria, find that the port facilities have been destroyed by the brits. Run out of fuel. Wait for the port to be repaired (with equipment and supplies brought overland from Libya on deficient transport network. Maybe he can close the Suez canal. He cant get much further, relying on overland transport to Iraq. And if he waits long the brits will blow up the Iraqi oil facilities (which Germany doesnt have the resources to quickly fix) Meanwhile Operation Torch is happening in NorthWest Africa.

Now if you're talking 1940, that at least gives him more time before Torch. But still very difficult logistical problems, the likelihood of oil facilities destroyed, etc. And taking the canal still leaves open the route around africa to India and Australia. Which is mainly what the Brits used after 1940, IIRC.

The main problems with the supply chain came from the fact the the allies could crack the Germans coded radio communications. BUt I think with total controll of Mediterranean Sea along with the use of sea and air transports to drop off the needed supplies and giving Rommel 10 more armor divisions to fight the British I think it could be done.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Jack_www


The main problems with the supply chain came from the fact the the allies could crack the Germans coded radio communications. BUt I think with total controll of Mediterranean Sea along with the use of sea and air transports to drop off the needed supplies and giving Rommel 10 more armor divisions to fight the British I think it could be done.

where do the sea transports (which Italy was perpetually short of) drop off supplies for Rommel?

[Jack_www]

You move use German ones and move them into Mediterranean. You can also using cargo ships from Germany and other Axis countries. Germany had a merchant fleet too.

Also I would use both Air and sea to get him the supplies he needed.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Jack_www
You move use German ones and move them into Mediterranean. You can also using cargo ships from Germany and other Axis countries. Germany had a merchant fleet too.

Also I would use both Air and sea to get him the supplies he needed.

A germany had a very limited merchant fleet mainly in the Baltic. no way they got have moved it into the Mediterranean against Brit naval superiority in the Atlantic.

And you still havent told me what ports they would land at. They land at tobruk or west, they dont have the overland transport to get the stuff to Rommel east of El alamein. Alexandria port is gonna be destroyed by the retreating brits, as i said.

Air? Er, we're talking about moving in FUEL for the Rommels tanks. No way are the Germans capable of supplying Rommel with fuel across the med by air.


Only way Horseys WI is remotely plausible is cause he seems to set it in 1940(NOT 1942), which gives more time to move and build up. Even then Im not sure it works. And it requires Hitler to have a very different attitude toward britain then he did. And requires Italians to welcome German assistance at a time when they still thought they could win in the Med on their own. Still, its interesting.

[lord of the mark]

and in 1940 the troop situation in the mideast is not as dire as in 1942, is it? - in 1940 Japan is not in the war, and Indian and Aussie troops are more available.

[Jack_www]

Yeah I would attack in Middle east right after the fall of France and just forget Britain. I would put most of the focus on taking North Africa and the Middle east from the British and close the Mediterranean Sea. Also I would do what the allies did during when they invaded France, contruct harbors out at sea with floating road ways that you can use trucks to carry the supplies to the shore.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Franco had a battle hardened army which would have been very handy for the Axis.

Which had taken three years to defeat a rag tag, untrained, non-professional army led by a divided government which was embargoed by the outside world and had a short leash kept on it by Stalin. Oh yeah, a real useful army.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Jack_www
Yeah I would attack in Middle east right after the fall of France and just forget Britain. I would put most of the focus on taking North Africa and the Middle east from the British and close the Mediterranean Sea. Also I would do what the allies did during when they invaded France, contruct harbors out at sea with floating road ways that you can use trucks to carry the supplies to the shore.

Building the mulberries at Normonay was a major technical feet on the part of the Americans, using the resources American industry made available. Even with that the allies were still quick to go after a port, Cherbourg, for sustained supply.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Third Reich board game

Wish there was a computer equivalent

There is, it sux.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


There is, it sux.

yeah, but isnt there now HOI? And dont we now have a poly board for Paradox games?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
A major faction in the Japanese military, backed by the IJA, pushed for a Northern Strategy involving a war against the Soviet Union as an alternative to the Southern Strategy, pushed by the IJN, that was eventually followed. The fact that the Southern Strategy eventually won out does not mean that the Japanese didn't have reasons to attack the Soviet Union.

In his History of the Second World War, B.H. Lidel-Hart said that Japan's Southern strategy was for the purpose of conquering China. The purpose of conquering Chnia was to use as a base for attacking the USSR.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
yeah, but isnt there now HOI? And dont we now have a poly board for Paradox games?

Yep, haven't played it yet though. Heard bad things about it.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


In his History of the Second World War, B.H. Lidel-Hart said that Japan's Southern strategy was for the purpose of conquering China. The purpose of conquering Chnia was to use as a base for attacking the USSR.

But thats long term strategy - in the short run Japan needed oil, and there wasnt any that Japan could get to easily in Russia.