College Football - Nov 29th

[Imran Siddiqui]

I thought we were talking about the real world here. In the real world, Guy's proposal has almost no chance of coming to fruition.

Why not? If you told someone in the 80s that you'd have an abomination like the BCS they would have told you that you were crazy.

Not necessarily. An injury to a star player can prevent a team from ending top of the table, even if they're the best team in the league. Just look at Arsenal last season. It's the team with the best season, not the most talent, that wins the championship.

And injuries prevent you from being the best team. The league championship is the best team, and durability figures into that.

Why should I accept a definition you just made up that goes against real-world evidence? It's obvious that the "national champion" in college football is the team with the best season, whether you want to admit it or not.

The real world evidence is that when you say 'champion' people think 'best team'. Look at what people were saying after the 2001 Superbowl. People said St. Louis was the best team, but the retort was: if they were the best team then they would have won the game. New England was the best team in the league because they won the big game.

When people say "We're #1" you think they are refering to We had the best season? You are being ridiculous.

Btw, if you REALLY want the team with the best 'season' to win the national championship shouldn't you award it after the REGULAR season? After all, the bowls are postseason playoff contests. They aren't part of the season. Why don't you just give the national champion to the team with the best 'season' and give it to the #1 team in the BCS before the bowls are played?

That was bull****, I agree, but it wasn't the fault of the BCS system. Blame the Orange Bowl and the other greedy bastards who ditched tradition in order to make a quick buck.

Oh yes, it wasn't the fault of the BCS. Before the BCS came to, would this result EVER have happened? NO! So yes, this was the BCS's fault because without that the Rose Bowl would have been Pac-10 v Big-10. The BCS gave the Orange Bowl the oppertunity to take USC and Iowa, aka BCS teams. Without it, that never could have happened.

A playoff just tells you who the best team is at the end of the year. It would end the "every game is vital" attitude that makes college football so exciting.

Since you'd have to win your conference to enter the playoff, under our system, every game is still vital.

What, you think that if we even had a 8 team at-large playoff that games such as Alabama-Auburn, USC-Notre Dame, Michigan-OSU, etc. would be any LESS thrilling? Bull, the thing that makes college football exciting is the rivalries and tradition, not this 'every loss dooms you' system. If that were the case then Auburn-Alabama wouldn't be worth a damn to watch this year, because neither is undefeated.

Oh, boo hoo. Take Palmer and Co. off the cross, please.

I will when the 2002 USC team could have played the 2002 OSU team .

Better product: yes
more money: yes
more fans: no

Per capita? I mean you are comparing 32 teams with 117 teams. Of course the league with 117 will have more attendance and total TV ratings. If you take the averages, the NFL wins out. Even if you take the averages of the top 32 teams in college football.

More Tradition: No

The problem is that the BCS is killing that tradition. I mean really, what was so wrong with the old system? I'd prefer that system over any other... but the BCS couldn't let that happen. I don't think we'll turn back time anytime soon though.

[Drake Tungsten]

It just doesn't work that way, Drake. You're smart enough to know that.

And you're smart enough to recognize an obvious troll when you see it. I was just picking on Imran.

But, instead, it's Northern Illinois.

What say you then?

They don't play a tough enough schedule. I've always said there must be a minimum strength of schedule to be considered for the national title. The real question is where to draw the line.

Big XII ain't looking that buff this season.

No it isn't. The chances of a Nebraska-Oklahoma showdown in the Big 12 title game are looking good, however, which pleases me to no end.

[Drake Tungsten]

I'll get back to you later, Imran. I'm at work right now and can't take the time to crank out a Berzerker-esque parsed post.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well instead of going for a Berzerker parsed post, just answer this. HOW is the current BCS system BETTER than the previous system? Is a 'true' national champion better than messing with the great tradition of the Bowl system and the conference tie-ins?

[Drake Tungsten]

Is a 'true' national champion better than messing with the great tradition of the Bowl system and the conference tie-ins?

I'm not really sure. I loved the old system and miss some of the traditions that have gone by the wayside after the BCS came into effect. I miss having Nebraska trying to get to the Orange Bowl each year. I miss the Big Ten and Pac 10 pretending that two mediocre teams playing in the Rose Bowl was somehow the best bowl game in football. I miss the complete insanity of the old poll system.

Then again, I don't miss situations like what happened to Penn State in 1994. No undefeated team with their strength of schedule should ever have been locked out of a title shot because tradition demands they play some crap Pac 10 team instead of the other undefeated team (Nebraska, in this case). It was horribly unfair and I'm glad those types of situations are gone.

I just don't know. I do know that a playoff would be bad for college football, however.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Then again, I don't miss situations like what happened to Penn State in 1994. No undefeated team with their strength of schedule should ever have been locked out of a title shot because tradition demands they play some crap Pac 10 team instead of the other undefeated team (Nebraska, in this case). It was horribly unfair and I'm glad those types of situations are gone.

I'm sorry but tradition and what college football is about is the Big 10 champ playing the Pac 10 champ. Why would you want to go against what college football is about in order to have two undefeateds go against each other. Nah.

I do know that a playoff would be bad for college football, however.

No worse than the BCS semi-playoff.

[DanS]

Per capita? I mean you are comparing 32 teams with 117 teams. Of course the league with 117 will have more attendance and total TV ratings. If you take the averages, the NFL wins out. Even if you take the averages of the top 32 teams in college football.

College football has 3x the attendance of the NFL. This despite the fact that college football has only a fraction of the games per season. The NFL team with the highest average attendance would be only #8 in the college football tables. Of the top 15 teams in average attendance, 14 are college football teams.

So if you take the top 32 teams in college football, they will have a much higher average attendance.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So if you take the top 32 teams in college football, they will have a much higher average attendance.

I also counted TV ratings. NFL teams do play in SMALLER stadiums, you realize? No one plays in a 100,000 stadium in the NFL, even though they could fill it every year (such as the Packers or Giants, etc.)

[DanS]

Re the TV viewership, I don't have the figures, but I note that none of the top college teams attendance-wise are in a top TV market.

NFL and college are just different games.

[Drake Tungsten]

No one plays in a 100,000 stadium in the NFL, even though they could fill it every year (such as the Packers or Giants, etc.)

What about the Superdome?

[Imran Siddiqui]

What about the Superdome?

http://www.superdome.com/site.php?pageID=2

Maximum Seating Capacity: football 69,703, expanded football 72,003

[Drake Tungsten]

Wow, I thought it was bigger than that. Not so super, is it?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well it has the most total cubic space of any domed stadium in the country. The dome goes up higher than other domed stadiums.

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Well it has the most total cubic space of any domed stadium in the country. The dome goes up higher than other domed stadiums.

So are we saying that NFL dome attendence is predominantly hot air?

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
They don't play a tough enough schedule. I've always said there must be a minimum strength of schedule to be considered for the national title. The real question is where to draw the line.

Who are you to decide if they play a tough enough schedule? They beat bowl teams from three different BCS conferences during their non-conference schedule... how many schools from BCS conferences can claim that?