College Football - Nov 29th

[Drake Tungsten]

Isn't the team that wins the National Championship game the 'hottest team'?

You have to play consistently great football over the course of the whole season to make it to the National Title game as it is now. The same can't be said for a playoff, where a two or even three loss team could sneak in and win it all by being hot at the end of the season.

A 'National Champion' means the best team.

How do you figure that? It means the champion of the system in place, which in college football rewards teams with a spotless or nearly spotless record, not the team that is simply the most talented.

When the NFL calls its SuperBowl winner 'NFL Champions' is it saying that team had the best season? Nope, they are saying that is the best team.

The NFL and college football aren't the same, thank god.

To say the 'National Champion' isn't the best team, but the team with the best overall season is an utterly silly argument.

Only to people who don't appreciate college football for what it is and want to change it to a clone of the NFL.

If you think the best team didn't win, then the BCS failed.

The best team didn't win last year, but I still think the BCS worked fine. It's Miami's fault that they choked in the big game, not the system's.

The best system in college sports, by FAR, is the NCAA college basketball tournament. It isn't even close.

That's your opinion. I prefer the college football bowls, myself.

[:) Smiley]

So you think that as a result of today that Cal is a better overall football team than USC?

Yes. Go Bears!

[Imran Siddiqui]

You have to play consistently great football over the course of the whole season to make it to the National Title game as it is now. The same can't be said for a playoff, where a two or even three loss team could sneak in and win it all by being hot at the end of the season.

If a team loses 3 games in its conference, I can bet they won't go to the playoff, because they won't win their conference.

How do you figure that? It means the champion of the system in place, which in college football rewards teams with a spotless or nearly spotless record, not the team that is simply the most talented.

In every sport people equate the term 'champion' as being the same as 'best team'. If you end up as champion, then you can go on about how you were the best team. Hell, most OSU fans talk about how they were the BEST TEAM last year, not that they had the best season!

The NFL and college football aren't the same, thank god.

Yes, the NFL is a much better product, which makes more money and has more fans.

Only to people who don't appreciate college football for what it is and want to change it to a clone of the NFL.

Sorry for me wanting to change an inferior product to a superior one .

The best team didn't win last year, but I still think the BCS worked fine. It's Miami's fault that they choked in the big game, not the system's.

Can't someone just as easily say that, say, USC was the 'best team' last year? They weren't able to play in the Big Game. This is sadder in light of the fact that USC's strength of schedule was so much harder than Miami's was.

[Drake Tungsten]

If a team loses 3 games in its conference, I can bet they won't go to the playoff, because they won't win their conference.

When did winning your conference become a pre-requisite to being in the playoff? Most of the proposals I've seen tend to just take the top 8 teams in the BCS, which would certainly allow non-conference champs to participate.

You could also lose two or three games in non-conference and still manage to win your conference championship, if that's a requirement.

In every sport people equate the term 'champion' as being the same as 'best team'.

Not soccer. The team with the best season is the champ, at least in league standings. Subjective judgements of quality don't factor into the decision.

Hell, most OSU fans talk about how they were the BEST TEAM last year, not that they had the best season!

Most people don't recognize the subtle difference. Hell, you're a pretty smart guy and you can't recognize it, so why would the average fan?

Sorry for me wanting to change an inferior product to a superior one

You should be. If you like the NFL, then watch it. Just don't ruin college football just so you can have NFL-lite to watch on Saturday.

Can't someone just as easily say that, say, USC was the 'best team' last year?

They could. There's really no way of knowing, which is why you base the championship on who had the best season, not which team may or may not be the most talented.

They weren't able to play in the Big Game. This is sadder in light of the fact that USC's strength of schedule was so much harder than Miami's was.

I don't find it sad at all. They had their shot and they blew it. End of story.

[Imran Siddiqui]

When did winning your conference become a pre-requisite to being in the playoff? Most of the proposals I've seen tend to just take the top 8 teams in the BCS, which would certainly allow non-conference champs to participate.

Funny, since you claim that people don't listen to your arugments, I thought you'd listen to others .

In the other debates we all liked Guy's initial proposal for the 11 conferences to have their winner go with one at-large team. There you go, even less subjective than the system now.

You could also lose two or three games in non-conference and still manage to win your conference championship, if that's a requirement.

Yes, and you could have 5 undefeated teams.

Not soccer. The team with the best season is the champ, at least in league standings. Subjective judgements of quality don't factor into the decision.

In soccer leagues, the league champion is the best team. The 'cups' are considered extra. They are FA Cup champions, etc. Calling someone a 'National Champion' is calling them a league champion. In this case the league is the NCAA, Division 1-A.

Most people don't recognize the subtle difference. Hell, you're a pretty smart guy and you can't recognize it, so why would the average fan?

I recognize the difference just fine. BCS apologists such as yourself can't recognize the real difference that 'National Champions' are considered the best team, not the team with the best overall season.

If you like the NFL, then watch it. Just don't ruin college football just so you can have NFL-lite to watch on Saturday.

I'm actually trying to make the bush-league college game better. I think your ilk (BCS apologists) have made it MUCH worse.

The game was much better before the BCS. College teams played their games and conference champs and at large teams faced off in bowls. Everyone knew that the so-called 'National Championship' was just a totally subjective determination of which was the best team. That was 10 times better than this BCS crap.

The sport has already been trashed so badly by the BCS, that really the tradition of the bowls means nothing anymore. This is why a playoff is no big deal to me. The bowls mean jack since the BCS came along.

I can't believe that USC and Iowa played on the EAST COAST when they were the the #1 Pac 10 and (tied) #1 Big 10 school! Your ilk have ALREADY RUINED college football. You can't complain then that people are ruining the sport when they advocate a playoff.

There's really no way of knowing, which is why you base the championship on who had the best season, not which team may or may not be the most talented.

Um yes, there is a way of knowing. It's called a playoff system.

I don't find it sad at all. They had their shot and they blew it. End of story.

Yeah, great shot... they get the toughest schedule in the country and you ask them to be as perfect as teams that have the 40th toughest schedule.

This is why playoffs exist, to give an ACTUAL shot to teams that have differing schedules.

[Drake Tungsten]

In the other debates we all liked Guy's initial proposal for the 11 conferences to have their winner go with one at-large team.

I know you guys liked that proposal, but I thought we were talking about the real world here. In the real world, Guy's proposal has almost no chance of coming to fruition.

In soccer leagues, the league champion is the best team.

Not necessarily. An injury to a star player can prevent a team from ending top of the table, even if they're the best team in the league. Just look at Arsenal last season. It's the team with the best season, not the most talent, that wins the championship.

Oh, almost forgot the deadly...

BCS apologists such as yourself can't recognize the real difference that 'National Champions' are considered the best team, not the team with the best overall season.

Why should I accept a definition you just made up that goes against real-world evidence? It's obvious that the "national champion" in college football is the team with the best season, whether you want to admit it or not.

I'm actually trying to make the bush-league college game better. I think your ilk (BCS apologists) have made it MUCH worse.

I can't believe that USC and Iowa played on the EAST COAST when they were the the #1 Pac 10 and (tied) #1 Big 10 school!

That was bull****, I agree, but it wasn't the fault of the BCS system. Blame the Orange Bowl and the other greedy bastards who ditched tradition in order to make a quick buck.

Um yes, there is a way of knowing. It's called a playoff system.

A playoff just tells you who the best team is at the end of the year. It would end the "every game is vital" attitude that makes college football so exciting.

Yeah, great shot... they get the toughest schedule in the country and you ask them to be as perfect as teams that have the 40th toughest schedule.

Oh, boo hoo. Take Palmer and Co. off the cross, please.

[TCO]

I am mostly on Drake's side with a little bit towards Imran. I think we have to let flukes count. It makes the games mean something. And gets us away from "fantasy league" evaluations. Performance matters. If you **** up and get upset, pay your penalty. But I think there should be some compensation for what type of league you play in. But not too much. If a team is undefeated in any major conference, it should have a slot at the championship...unless there are 3 such teams. Note the MAC and WAC are not major conferences. The Big East has several good schools. Pitt, Va Tech, Miami, Syracuse. Yeah there are some weak ones....but the Big Ten has NU.

And I LOVE the polls. Love the controversy...love the messiness of it. I liked it even better pre-BCS, fun listening to the Big Ten whine about not being in championships...but still act all haughty like being in the Rose Bowl is MORE important. FUN!

And I don't need to see the best team win every year. This is football. The 1969 Jets were not the best team. But they pulled it out. If we want the best team to win we could have a playoff and have best of 7 series like basketball...but that would suck.

[TCO]

what makes it fun IS the possibility of upsets. Increases the tension. I'm a little bit of a Michigan fan, but I love that they got upset. This is FOOTBALL.

[Drake Tungsten]

But I think there should be some compensation for what type of league you play in. But not too much.

I agree with you on this.

Note the MAC and WAC are not major conferences.

This too. Looks like our opinions aren't that far off.

fun listening to the Big Ten whine about not being in championships...but still act all haughty like being in the Rose Bowl is MORE important. FUN!

That's why I still hate the Big Ten, the arrogant *****.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Wow.

Washington State routed Oregon, 55-16.

I wonder what this says about Michigan?

Well...

Michigan pimp-slapped Notre Dame all over the field...
Notre Dame edged out Washington State...
And Washington State took a big crap in the middle of Autzen Stadium and forced the Ducks to eat it.


It just doesn't work that way, Drake. You're smart enough to know that.

[Guynemer]

Oh, and Drake...

Let's say there is one, and only one, undefeated team this year. And it's not Miami, or Oklahoma, or Nebraska, or Florida State, or Ohio State, or Georgia, or Virginia Tech.

But, instead, it's Northern Illinois.

What say you then?

[GhengisFarb™]

Hey hey, as much as I despise Ok State they have some talent on their team. Maybe not consistent talent...........

Big XII ain't looking that buff this season.

[H Tower]

Originally posted by Ming
What section are you going to be in... I'll look for you.

Section K, the east side of the stadium on the south 40 yard line

I was wearing a long sleave orange shirt and sitting among 200 other students wearing orange shirts

Illinois' defense can't stop the pass (Illinois State's 500 passing yards) and it can't stop the run either (Wisconsin's 200+ yards running)

[H Tower]

Originally posted by Imram Siddiqui
Yes, the NFL is a much better product, which makes more money and has more fans.

Better product: yes
more money: yes
more fans: no

[PLATO]

More emotion: No
More at stake each game: No
More Tradition: No