EU full of Picky Eaters

[Chemical Ollie]

Why not call it Hiawatha ham or whatever?

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
There's no ham in a hamburger, and it does not come from Hamburg...

Yes it was. The Hamburger is named after the town of Hamburg....in the US. (they even steal our town names!)

I think this is fair enough. If I go into a supermarket and see 'Parma Ham' written on a packet I bloody well expect it to be Parma Ham! If it is not then the manufacturers are unfairly trading on the reputation of a completely different product, which they do not own.

[Asmodean]

And please don't tell us Americans what we do and don't have a "real sense" of or "understand" anymore, it's a stupid argument that holds no weight and I am tired of hearing Old Europe keep telling us this... We are like an ignorant teenager, but did you ever listen? Doubt it, and the more that you continue to say stuff like that the more it hurts...

Sure. But please understand that I meant no offence

Asmodean

[Japher]

No, I know you didn't, but I am getting tired of hearing it. I don't say "You Europeans are just too old and don't understand what American Nationality is..." because it adds nothing to the argument, and if I keep saying it, and it bugs you a little at first, I am sure it will eventually drive you nuts...

So. What if whoever makes the Parma Ham in the US makes it in a town called Parma?... I can understand if there is one manufacturer of Parma Ham in ? wherever? it comes from to be made at this, but should be an issue between that manufacturer and the one in the US not between states...

Saying it can't be called something, because it doesn't come from a certain place, is silly... If I were French I would make a wine and call it Napa Valley Finest Wine, and see what happens

Oh, I looked up Parma ham, I'll have to try it. I always make sure that all my prosciutto comes from Italy, I have had some pretty nasty crap from England.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
The worst case of label fraud is of course calling a brand of American beer Budweiser. The only true Budweiser comes of course from Ceske Budeovice (Budweis) in the Czech Republic and is actually beer and not bottled piss like the American fake.

This is another slam dunk. AB started brewing and selling it's Budweiser beer (because the founder was from Budweis when it was still part of Austria) in the 1880's and 120 years latter someone wants to sue them for the brand name. Sorry, but you are 120 years to late. Everyone with any legal sense knows you have to defend a label or the the copy right ceases to exist.

120 years of not defending it is PLENTY of time for anyone other the AB to give up their claims.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Japher
So. What if whoever makes the Parma Ham in the US makes it in a town called Parma?

By that reasoning you shouldn't have a problem with people in Ireland opening a Hamburger place called MacDonalds....

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
Yes it was. The Hamburger is named after the town of Hamburg....in the US. (they even steal our town names!)

I think this is fair enough. If I go into a supermarket and see 'Parma Ham' written on a packet I bloody well expect it to be Parma Ham! If it is not then the manufacturers are unfairly trading on the reputation of a completely different product, which they do not own.

They've been locally making and selling it for hundred(s) of years. It's to late. You've lost all claims through centuries of inaction. Now, find something else to cry about.

[Japher]

By that reasoning you shouldn't have a problem with people in Ireland opening a Hamburger place called MacDonalds....

I wouldn't, but I can't say as much for the crazy nut-jobs that run McDonalds and their team of overpaid attorney's

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
By that reasoning you shouldn't have a problem with people in Ireland opening a Hamburger place called MacDonalds....

Do you not understand English? A copy right must be continually enforced. McDonald's has enforced it's copy right while Italian government hasn't enforced any rights to the term Parma. Heck, I can show you locally produced ham from the US which has been selling Parma Ham continuesly for at least 100 years. I bet if we look we can even find a producer who is older then the Italian state.

The truth is things like Parma ham are no longer brands they are common names to styles of food and nothing more.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Oerdin
They've been locally making and selling it for hundred(s) of years. It's to late. You've lost all claims through centuries of inaction. Now, find something else to cry about.

That is bull**** - the US has not been making 'Parma Ham' for hundreds of years.

And anyway, what difference does that make? I would not be able to sell cut glass as 'diamonds' because it would be fraud. Selling cheap ham from Canada as 'Parma Ham' is also fraud.

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by Japher

but should be an issue between that manufacturer and the one in the US not between states...

Makes sense. But ultimately not what the EU want. We'll have to see where it leads. My bet is that it get's watered down, but with more concessions made by the U.S. than by Europe. Why? 'Cause this is an issue that we care more about than the U.S.

Asmodean

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
Yes it was. The Hamburger is named after the town of Hamburg....in the US. (they even steal our town names!)

Josh, the people who named these towns often named their new towns for the places they lived in Europe. I suppose decendents who stayed in Europe somehow have more right to common cultural heritage then people who brought it to the new world?

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I suppose decendents who stayed in Europe somehow have more right to common cultural heritage then people who brought it to the new world?

Absolutely

Traitors and deserters the lot of them....

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
That is bull**** - the US has not been making 'Parma Ham' for hundreds of years.

And anyway, what difference does that make? I would not be able to sell cut glass as 'diamonds' because it would be fraud. Selling cheap ham from Canada as 'Parma Ham' is also fraud.

Why do you think the Clocal producer won in Canadian court? It's becuase he could show he made Parma style ham for so long. It's not a fake because we are taking about a style of preparing food and no longer about a region where the food is prepared. The copy right hasn't been defended for hundreds of years and now the term has entered the venacular. It is no longer a brand no matter how much you wish it was.

The EU's attempts to recover these terms is no more valid then if MExico attempted to copy right the term Burrito or if Japan tried to copy right the term Sushi. They are now common words used in the English language and no one has claim upon them.

[Japher]

I suppose decendents who stayed in Europe somehow have more right to common cultural heritage then people who brought it to the new world?

But it was the American Hamburg culture that made the burger, not the German one (or whatever it was back then)...

Makes sense. But ultimately not what the EU want.

The EU can't just start making new laws out of thin air and expect that the US will apply by them or honor them. If they want anything they will learn to compromise.