Indisputable Abortion FACTS:

[Zylka]

You sure as hell do consent to the growth of life inside of you when you allow semen into your body and onwards to inseminating a present egg. Whether or not the woman is "knowledgeable" of this viability beforehand is about as grey area as whether or not that nurse's aid was "knowledgeable" that leaving a crippled bleeding man on the hood of her car for several days would kill him. C'mon, Immy!

[Imran Siddiqui]

You sure as hell do consent to the growth of life inside of you when you allow semen into your body

No you don't. Consent for one thing isn't the same as consent for all that comes after it, even if that which comes afterwards is foreseeable.

Like my example, consent to throw a party does not lead to consenting to have drunk partygoers hang out at your place for a week.

As for the nurse, there was no 'consent' involved there at all. After all, the guy did not ask to lay on the woman's hood. Her act led to a duty to call for help because she injured an pedestrian.

In contrast, in an abortion setting, there is no duty to allow your body to be used as an incubator. You are simply removing the offending tenant. If it can't survive outside, then tough. It did not have permission to be there anyway.

[Zylka]

So you're for abortions up until the fetus leaves the womb - by decision of the mother's consent?

[Spiffor]

Imran, you should read the story. I wrote the whole thing down for people to understand why I'm proud. It is not a troll, but my sincerest feeling.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Imran, you should read the story. I wrote the whole thing down for people to understand why I'm proud. It is not a troll, but my sincerest feeling.

so ur covering up her mistakes by slaughtering her children...

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by yavoon
so ur covering up her mistakes by slaughtering her children...

Do you have any idea of what would have become of both children if she gave birth a second time. I actually didn't think about her future at first, because she has looked for trouble, and should deserve some punishment. I was mostly looking for [b]the kid(/b](s)' future. Hadn't she aborted, their future was grim. Bigtime.

I too happen to think the kids are innocent in this whole story. Should they suffer from their mother's mistakes during their whole lives ? Should they be punished for their mother's mistakes ? I don't think so.
The born daughter is likely never to know her father (or even worse, she might meet a hateful father later in her life), and this is punishment already. Did you want to inflict more punishment to this baby, with malnutrition, mother's bitterness and the like ? I sure didn't.


Yes, the world would be all nice'n clean if children didn't suffer from the consequences of their parents' mistakes. However, the world is not a faerie tale. From the dawn of time, there have always been children who had to suffer from misfit parents, whether they were alcoholic, bitter, too poor to feed them etc. Your claim for parents to "take responsibility" is morally all good, but it is sadly not realistic.
However, with abortion, there are now two ways to deal with the problem of parents unable to raise children:
- the old way. Give birth to the children, have them live a terrible childhood (with all the consequences it could have on their whole life, if the kid ever survives to childhood), and most likely let them repeat the same mistakes.
- the new way. Avoid to give birth, avoid the baby to live a life of suffering.

I like the new way best.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So you're for abortions up until the fetus leaves the womb - by decision of the mother's consent?

I'm for abortion until the fetus/child can live outside the womb. At that point, then you take the child out and let it live. Before that point, you can't have the child live, so you take it out and it dies.

Imran, you should read the story. I wrote the whole thing down for people to understand why I'm proud. It is not a troll, but my sincerest feeling.

Since it's so long, you think anyone will read it?

Anyway, if you want my opinion, it isn't anything to be too proud about. She was irresponsible, and even if you did the right thing in the end, it ain't a badge of courage.

[Zylka]

When is the average age for a fetus able to survive outside of the womb, exactly? I've heard 5 months here, but that doesn't seem right, at all

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ask a doctor . I believe it is closer to 6 months, but I'm not sure.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
it ain't a badge of courage.

Indeed, it's a badge of doing the right thing. I'd have been exactly as proud if I saved a baby from drowning in a swimming pool: definitely not something difficult or brave. But the right thing to do.

(BTW, it wasn't as easy as it looks: she was very hostile to abortion at the beginning, since she pledged never to abort again 3 years prior. Her lover at that time was too affected to have the courage to go through her resistance, and to make her cry. Maybe in the end he'd have convinced her anyway before the time limit, but that's very far from being sure, since he was fragile at the time, and especially uncomfortable with this pregnancy)

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Since it's so long, you think anyone will read it?

I hope some people will read this story, and will understand that abortion can be a great thing, because it can prevent much forseeable misery.

[Zylka]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Ask a doctor . I believe it is closer to 6 months, but I'm not sure.

Right. If so - ANY woman who would decide not to go the extra THREE months plus labour, and instead risk the child severe developmental problems via early evacuation...

THAT woman would be deserving of "being sent to Saudi Arabia". I also have a very special name for someone like that, that I have decided not to use for fear of being labeled a misogynist. I think it's "c*ntrag", actually (whoops)

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Do you have any idea of what would have become of both children if she gave birth a second time. I actually didn't think about her future at first, because she has looked for trouble, and should deserve some punishment. I was mostly looking for [b]the kid(/b](s)' future. Hadn't she aborted, their future was grim. Bigtime.

I too happen to think the kids are innocent in this whole story. Should they suffer from their mother's mistakes during their whole lives ? Should they be punished for their mother's mistakes ? I don't think so.
The born daughter is likely never to know her father (or even worse, she might meet a hateful father later in her life), and this is punishment already. Did you want to inflict more punishment to this baby, with malnutrition, mother's bitterness and the like ? I sure didn't.


Yes, the world would be all nice'n clean if children didn't suffer from the consequences of their parents' mistakes. However, the world is not a faerie tale. From the dawn of time, there have always been children who had to suffer from misfit parents, whether they were alcoholic, bitter, too poor to feed them etc. Your claim for parents to "take responsibility" is morally all good, but it is sadly not realistic.
However, with abortion, there are now two ways to deal with the problem of parents unable to raise children:
- the old way. Give birth to the children, have them live a terrible childhood (with all the consequences it could have on their whole life, if the kid ever survives to childhood), and most likely let them repeat the same mistakes.
- the new way. Avoid to give birth, avoid the baby to live a life of suffering.

I like the new way best.

so u decided to play god? u foresaw a future that YOU wouldn't want to live in. and then decided that instead of letting the child live u would simply kill it. isnt that a lil beyond a persons scope?

[Zylka]

You forget, Yavoon. Spiff is unwilling to commit to whether or not this is murder. That's a lowly topic for the rest of us mortals

[yavoon]

to lay it out simply. there are two issues at stake. one, u can reliably foresee the future. and two, u have the moral authority to decide for the child that being killed in the womb is preferable to that future.