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**Dinner** · July 28, 2003, 00:03

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Tell that to latin america.

Red herring. Most of latin America is much better off today then they were 20 years ago. Look how many more have TVs, cars, jobs. Just look at MExico today verses 20 years ago. South America is currently going through a slump because it's new Democracy elected politicians who acted like candy men who just couldn't say no to any spending bill they ever saw. Thus the debt crisis and the financial melt down.

**Kramerman** · July 28, 2003, 00:13

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
And the big surprise is that most also blame the US for a lot of their troubles, not Castro.

Wait. That's not a surprise at all.

of course its not a suprise, if i were in cuba, i would listen to my supreme overlord too and blame america for my troubles... same thing if i lived in China, NK, or Vietnam... hmm, what do all these countries have in common?

**Kramerman** · July 28, 2003, 00:20

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Cuba does all right internaly

it is in camparison with other nations that it does bad, and most of this is because of the US (sanctions and the like)

Jon Miller

i dont buy that. Yes, the US is an important trading partner, but im not convinced that Cuba could not get other things they need to import/export elsewhere. To blame their condition solely on the US embargo is unwuse, i think their communist system has much more to do with it

**GePap** · July 28, 2003, 00:26

Originally posted by Sikander

Of course they "started" at a much higher standard of living than South America, but have lost most of that advantage in comparitive terms as their real incomes are lower than they were when Castro took over.

No they didn't. Cuba is not in any way richer than ANY state in South America, even Bolivia or Paraguay.

Cuba does have much better literacy rates and average lifespans, but PCI is certainly lower.

**Sikander** · July 28, 2003, 00:53

Originally posted by GePap

No they didn't. Cuba is not in any way richer than ANY state in South America, even Bolivia or Paraguay.

Cuba does have much better literacy rates and average lifespans, but PCI is certainly lower.

My starting point of reference was the end of the Battista regime when I believe Cuba was richer than most of the countries of South America. Now they of course aren't.

**GePap** · July 28, 2003, 01:02

Unlikely. Many SA state were certainly much richer, and the rest were about as rich: maybe Bolivia and Paraguay were behind, but no, for all the glitz of Havana Cuba was not rich, not even by Latin American standards.

**KrazyHorse** · July 28, 2003, 01:27

Originally posted by TCO

Because we have a capitalist system with the rul of law.

Or because living in a richer place makes you richer, generally?

**KrazyHorse** · July 28, 2003, 01:29

Originally posted by Kramerman

i dont buy that. Yes, the US is an important trading partner, but im not convinced that Cuba could not get other things they need to import/export elsewhere. To blame their condition solely on the US embargo is unwuse, i think their communist system has much more to do with it

The biggest market in the world is sitting 90 miles from them and they're barred access. The next nearest first world market is Canada.

No. Not a major competitive disadvantage at all...

**Saras** · July 28, 2003, 04:43

Communism will fall, and Cuba will be like the Baltic states after the fall of USSR, perhaps even better, due to lifting of US embrago.

And we're (the Baltics) doing just fine.

**OliverFA** · July 28, 2003, 12:18

Originally posted by Sikander

Originally posted by OliverFA
Chavez will move from Venezuela to Cuba, take his place and everything else will be the same

Actually, that doesn't sound that bad.

Specially for the people at Venezuela

**OliverFA** · July 28, 2003, 12:21

Originally posted by Kramerman

i dont buy that. Yes, the US is an important trading partner, but im not convinced that Cuba could not get other things they need to import/export elsewhere. To blame their condition solely on the US embargo is unwuse, i think their communist system has much more to do with it

Specially since a lot of Spanish people go to Cuba on Holidays and give their Euros to Cuban "companies". The embargo is not a real embargo.

**Japher** · July 28, 2003, 12:21

Yup, Cuba is suppose to be a great vacation destination... For except Americans that is...

**Dinner** · July 28, 2003, 12:53

Americans can still go. You just can't let the Bushies know.

Seriously, it has never been illegal to go to Cuba; just to spend money there.

Though a few years ago the restrictions were lightened so that now you can go for "educational reasons". The Cubans have started offering "Cuban history tours" where you spend 1 day learning about Cuban history and the next 6 laying on the beach. Now that's my idea of education.

**Kidlicious** · July 28, 2003, 14:01

post ban test

edit: Cuba will remain independent from the US and the exiles which spells some sort of socialist system to continue, hopefully more democratic.

**Kidlicious** · July 28, 2003, 14:09

Castro promised to take dollars out of circulation again. Anyone got a site on that?

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What will happen to Cuba when Castro dies?

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