US Becoming Weirder and Very Anachronistic

[The Templar]

Originally posted by obiwan18


How do you interpret Ephesians 5:22?

"Wives submit to your husbands as to the Lord."

As something written by a guy who needed a sports car if you get my drift.

I interpret your quoting the Bible in earnest as the sure sign of a sucker.

[Ben Kenobi]

I interpret your quoting the Bible in earnest as the sure sign of a sucker.

Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.

[Shi Huangdi]

obiwan: There is also

Galatians 3:28:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus

Before going any further, do your consider yourself a fundamentalist/literalist/inerrantist with regard to the bible?

[DinoDoc]

obiwan: "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." Matthew 7:6

It might save you some headaches when dealing with a few people here.

[Ted Striker]

USA!

[Kuciwalker]

About the must/should distinction, "must be" isn't necessarily saying that this person believes it is a requirement that it be this way. It can (and often does) also mean that given some set of information (or no set), this would have to be objectively true. (it's idiomatic! it's hard to express without saying "it must be" )

[Ben Kenobi]

Shi:

No I am not an inerrantist, although I am definitely a conservative when it comes to my biblical interpretations.

The problem with citing Galatians to defend your point is that Paul talks about everyone being brothers and sisters in Christ, neither male nor female divide one from the other.

Again, from Ephesians, just a bit later on, you see Paul talking about the union of the man and the woman in marriage, where the two become one flesh.

It would be helpful for me to cite this passage, from 1 Corinthians 12:12-26, to illustrate the point I alluded to earlier.


"The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by[3] one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it."

If there can be equality in value within the body of Christ, even when radically different roles for each individual within the body of Christ. The preacher is no better than the janitor.

The same is with the marriage relationship, someone should be the head of the family, and the passage in Ephesians suggests that the husband fill the role. What the 'head' of the family does will depend upon each individual family, and the talents available to the husband and the wife.

[DinoDoc]

BTW: Check your PMs.

[Ben Kenobi]

It might save you some headaches when dealing with a few people here.

Thanks dinodoc.

Did you understand my illustration of the difference between the resuscitation of Lazarus from the resurrection of Christ?

[Mr. President]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You wouldn't let us go when we tried to leave before. Now we like it here.

Of course you like it, now. When was the last Northern president?

[Dis]

Reagan was the last Northern president. technically not north, but sided with the union.

[Shi Huangdi]

obiwan:

No doubt we all have different positions to fufill in life. But keep in mind the context which the Galatians passage is here. If you want to apply your Corinithians passage to it; then are there also different roles for Jews and Greeks? For slaves and freeemen? Of course, most modern Christian wouldn't want there to be any slaves at all(except in the sense of us all being slaves to God). The Galatians passage furthermore doesn't say that men at women have seperate but equal roles, it says there is no man and woman.

Now as for the famed Ephesians passage. Most modern interpretations of that passage, including Pope JPII's interpretation suggest that that passage be viewed in light of Ephesians 5:21 that we all be subservient to each other, and in cultural and historical mindset of that time. Reading the whole of Ephesians chapter 5, we see that Paul is in a very broad sense urging the Ephesians to be "good", urging them to live their lives in accordance with teaching of God. Remember at that time women were assumed to be lesser then men, and not as rational or even intelligent, both the semitic and hellenic world had anti-female bias heavily in their society. Hence such a command for wives to be subject to their husband is only natural, just as we would tell children to obey their parents. Since we now know Women to be equal, intelectually and not just before God, I don't such a need for a command, and I think a marriage in which both partners treat each other as equals is not one that will anger God.

[Ben Kenobi]

Since we now know Women to be equal, intelectually and not just before God, I don't such a need for a command, and I think a marriage in which both partners treat each other as equals is not one that will anger God.

Lancer would be able to explain much more eloquently than I. There is no specific Biblical directive exhorting divisions between slaves and freedmen, both brothers in Christ, so no justification for a difference in roles. However, Ephesians seems to argue for the difference in roles between a man and a woman in a marriage. Just as a man can't give birth, the woman has different roles to fill.

What does 'head' entail? That's the question each family must decide for themselves, based on the individual talents of the husband and the wife. In some families, this may mean doing the financial work, in others, this may just mean protecting the wife.

A good analogy, (thanks, UR,) is one of a yin-yang. Both sides are equal, although they are not the same. Equality in value, though difference in function.

it says there is no man and woman.

In the relationship with God, not necessarily in a marriage. That's why Paul has to make a specific directive regarding marriage.

[Lancer]

I see men as being logical and emotional, women as being emotional and logical. The reason that women are over the children is the emotional. Within the family emotional nurtureing is the thing. The man on the other hand is the one who relates to the world for the welfare of the family, so logic prevails. I believe this reasonable set up, playing to everyone's strengths, is the reason why the man is refered to as head of the family.

The reason I don't get involved in debates of this nature very often is that one can set out a position, but that's all. There are as many takes on the bible as verses in it.

Answers are few in this life because faith is the point.

[faded glory]

Shut up pregnant,barefoot woman, go back in the kitchen and cook me dinner!