Hitler and Bush...

[Zero]

This thread title asked for it:

[Whaleboy]

"Greed has been necessary to survival"

To a greater, more fundamental extent, so has altruism. That is part of the reason that mammals have been so successful. Nonetheless, greed seems to have a place in the human psyche, but then, like rape, murder, etc, these parts of human nature can be tempered by nurture. I dont think that some aspects of society and humanity were ready for communism in the purest sense (not stalinism).

[Whaleboy]

Genius!!!! And so close to reality that its almost scary.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I don't believe greed is hard-wired. Survival is... They are different.

Greed has been necessary to survival. After all isn't self-interest that which has allowed us to live in the past? I don't think they are that different at all.

But your argument has a very important flaw. For you to be correct, would mean that everyone would be succuming to their greedy desires. Society exists to provide a sort of social control over instincts and raw human emotions that are damaging. The basic existence of society proves you wrong.

[Imran Siddiqui]

but then, like rape, murder, etc, these parts of human nature can be tempered by nurture.

Perhaps, but you'll see, even though we say how bad it is and wrong it is and how horrible it is and tell our kids not to do this, it still happens on a large scale level.

All it takes is a couple greedy bastards in a 'true' communist society to **** things up.

[Zero]

Im just threadjacking. I admit it. I couldnt help the urge to post the pic. The title was soooo appropriate.

[VetLegion]

Who knows, but the Communists didn't overthrow the Tsars anyway. A better question is whould a Provisional Government led Russia been able to defeat Germany, and yes, I think they would have. Especially with the economic reforms they were pushing.

That would make an interesting fiction story. Does anyone know of any books that cover this kind of subject? Alternate history, etc.

If you are looking for alternate history online resources, soc.history.what-if newsgroup has an abundance of good threads, but also, overwhelming traffic.

[Whaleboy]

"it still happens on a large scale level"

Not really, in terms of rapists and rape victims in the general population, I'd suggest that it is vastly less than what it was 25'000 years ago.

"All it takes is a couple greedy bastards in a 'true' communist society to **** things up"

True, but then, I think that the society is able to cope with that, just as our society is able to cope with rapists. Nonetheless, I like the Shangri-la based idea of small little communes, comprising humans living together in small groups, but then interacting. More environmentally sound that cities nonetheless, and is more likely to work. However, I am not a communist by most interpretations, I prefer the idea of the Mill Limit (see link in sig).

[Sava]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Perhaps, but you'll see, even though we say how bad it is and wrong it is and how horrible it is and tell our kids not to do this, it still happens on a large scale level.

It depends on your definition of large scale. Less than 1% of people in America will commit murder or rape.

All it takes is a couple greedy bastards in a 'true' communist society to **** things up.

This statement is baseless because a true communist society has never existed in the first place. Judging from the current economic policies in America, I could just as easily assert that a couple of greedy bast4rds are ****ing things up in this society.

[VetLegion]

And on topic: the reason communism didn't work is because Stalin was a smoker. Cigarettes kill, kids, and that includes communism

[Imran Siddiqui]

Not really, in terms of rapists and rape victims in the general population, I'd suggest that it is vastly less than what it was 25'000 years ago.

I don't know how much I'd agree with that statement. There are plenty of rapes out there that simply don't get reported. I remember a study done where teenage females said they expected force.

I like the Shangri-la based idea of small little communes, comprising humans living together in small groups, but then interacting. More environmentally sound that cities nonetheless, and is more likely to work.

The sound you hear is technological progress screaching to a halt .

[Sava]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I don't know how much I'd agree with that statement. There are plenty of rapes out there that simply don't get reported. I remember a study done where teenage females said they expected force.

this can be a misleading statistic like the "most marriages fail" statistic... perhaps the rapist in question is a multiple offender... I doubt most rapes are isolated incidents. As with the marriage thing, the stats don't take into accound "repeat offenders"... i.e. people who commit multiple rapes and people who have multiple divorces

[Zero]

Originally posted by VetLegion
And on topic: the reason communism didn't work is because Stalin was a smoker. Cigarettes kill, kids, and that includes communism

not to mention the soviet union didnt even know how to even use the friggin alphabets..... and hired bunch of mongolians for government positions.

[Imran Siddiqui]

perhaps the rapist in question is a multiple offender

Well obviously the prision system did not deter him. It did not make him see what was right and wrong.

It's not a misleading stat that most rapes go unreported Sava. I think you'll find just about everyone that works on rape cases will echo that statement. Most women just think nothing will be done, or think that it won't matter. The number of women, who later in life, look back and say, yeah, I was raped back then but didn't think I was is staggering!

And most 'date rapes' (or more accurately acquaintance rapes) aren't done by repeat offenders, but by all manner of individuals.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Well obviously the prision system did not deter him. It did not make him see what was right and wrong.

You're assuming he was caught in the first place.

It's not a misleading stat that most rapes go unreported Sava.

That's not what I said. I believe the number of rapes can be misleading in determining the number of seperate rapists.

And most 'date rapes' (or more accurately acquaintance rapes) aren't done by repeat offenders, but by all manner of individuals.

proof? perhaps you should ask a criminal psychologist about whether or not rapes are isolated incidents