Palestinian Refugees: The Right of Return?

[Az]

The VAST MAJORITY of palestinian refugees have never been to palestine. And why should they give that right up? they should give it up if they want to sign a peace deal. Period. The palestinians won't give it up? neither will we.

Either the palestinians will go to the Palestinian state, or they'll be given full rights in arab states. They're NOT coming here. period.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Azazel
The VAST MAJORITY of palestinian refugees have never been to palestine. And why should they give that right up? they should give it up if they want to sign a peace deal. Period. The palestinians won't give it up? neither will we.

Either the palestinians will go to the Palestinian state, or they'll be given full rights in arab states. They're NOT coming here. period.

The fact thye have not been there does not remove their right to eithert return to family land or be compensated for it.

You won;t give what up? you have no right to deny others theirs. You can constanty battle against the rights of others, but all that makes you is a violator of rights.

[Edan]

Originally posted by GePap
Orange asked a good question: why should the Palestinians give up the right of return?

Cause they're not going to get it. Does anyone really think that any country would abosrb millions of people who, up until recently, the majority of whom supported the destruction of that country, and whom many still do?

It is their right, the right of all refugees.

Including Jewish refugees from the surrounding Arab states?

So Eli and Azazel, what is your solution to this fact?

Well, how many Palestinians can prove that they:

a) were alive in 1948.
b) owned property in Israel in 1948.
c) were kicked off their land, as opposed to fled.

If they can do that, I would support those individuals right to return.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Edan
Cause they're not going to get it. Does anyone really think that any country would abosrb millions of people who, up until recently, the majority of whom supported the destruction of that country, and whom many still do?

So the problem is with the insistance of Israelis to have a state without giving full and equal rights to all potential citizens?

Including Jewish refugees from the surrounding Arab states?

Yes, if the people can show they were refugees from war and not volutary emmigrants.

Well, how many Palestinians can prove that they:

a) were alive in 1948.
b) owned property in Israel in 1948.
c) were kicked off their land, as opposed to fled.

If they can do that, I would support those individuals right to return.

People who flee are still refugees (it would be nice if you knew the definition before you start arguing). And all the people who live in UN Refugee camps can pretty much make the claim that they are refugees, hence, living in refugee camps.

So you approve the right of return of millions of individuals? So if we go from saying the Palestinains right of return to the Right of return of Individual Palestinians, you will support it? Fine, lets change the name.

[Edan]

Originally posted by GePap


So the problem is with the insistance of Israelis to have a state without giving full and equal rights to all potential citizens?

So are you calling for America to grant citizenship to all Iraqis?

Jews and Palestinians obviously have a lot of differences, I don't see why their self-determination and destiny need be linked with each other, especially when a two state solution seems far more realistic.

So you approve the right of return of millions of individuals? .

No. I said I would support the return of those who were, themselves, kicked out, and I said it quite clearly, so don't start twisting my words.

And I don't see anyone arguing that millions were kicked out. (Heck, no one argues that millions fled either...)

[GePap]

Originally posted by Edan


So are you calling for America to grant citizenship to all Iraqis?

Jews and Palestinians obviously have a lot of differences, I don't see why their self-determination and destiny need be linked with each other, especially when a two state solution seems far more realistic.

first of all, the cute smiley is becoming tiring.
The right of return is one each Palestinians defined as an individual has. What would you say to the Albanians of Kosovo? That becuase there is an Albania for Albanians, they really should not have expected ever to come back to Kosovo, which was part of Serbia, and hence for Serbians? I must assume, given what you say, that you disapproved of the aims of the Kosovo war, since MIlosevic was doing somehting you would understand.

No. I said I would support the return of those who were, themselves, kicked out, and I said it quite clearly, so don't start twisting my words.

And I don't see anyone arguing that millions were kicked out. (Heck, no one argues that millions fled either...)

Thankfully, you have no power to change the definition of the right of return of refugees.

[Edan]

Originally posted by GePap


first of all, the cute smiley is becoming tiring.

The right of return is one each Palestinians defined as an individual has. What would you say to the Albanians of Kosovo? That becuase there is an Albania for Albanians, they really should not have expected ever to come back to Kosovo, which was part of Serbia, and hence for Serbians?

And if Israeli leaders weren't prepared to set up a Palestinian state in the terrirories (provided a cessaton of terrorism), I would, and have, condemned their views.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Edan
And if Israeli leaders weren't prepared to set up a Palestinian state in the terrirories (provided a cessaton of terrorism), I would, and have, condemned their views.

So lets get this straight. Palestinians as human beings have only those rights that are convinient to Israelis and their political whishes? How thouroughy modern and egalitarian of you.

As I said before, and you continually ignore, the creation of a Palestinains state does NOT (repat, NOT, NOT, NOT, NOT) invalidate the right of return refugees have.

I must assume you have no real answer, besides the rahter backward view on human rights that you have given.

[Az]

Yes, if the people can show they were refugees from war and not volutary emmigrants.

The Palestinians were not forced to leave. They could stay.


Oh and as you very well know, "rights" is not the thing that concerns me.

[Jaguar]

If the right of return is that fundamental, the Palestinians can have Israel, and Israelis get Berlin.

[BeBMan]

At least we get a capable army then

[GePap]

Originally posted by Azazel
The Palestinians were not forced to leave. They could stay.
.

MOst refugees are never forced to leave. Force is never necessary, just committ a few attrocities here and there, make it plain that they might not be the only ones, and people get the message that they are not welcomed to saty were they are.

So you say the Palestinains should have stayed, to be nice, second class citizens? Never to have power in their own home state? Wow, what an offer! I wonder why Jews in Arab state's after 1948 were happy not to emmigrate to israel!? Baffling really. Could it have been their desire not to be second class citizens?

I know you don;t care only about rights, and that is one of the things we surely most rgeatly disagree on.

[Az]

You know very well you can get a very capable army if you want to. Many would say, TOO capable.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
If the right of return is that fundamental, the Palestinians can have Israel, and Israelis get Berlin.

It is hard to return when you are dead, now isn;t it?

Don't trivialize the issue.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, I wondered about that. Would the Israelis be against compensation for lost property of Jews during Hitler's reign? Would they be against Jews being able to return to their former countries after WW2?

If they wouldn't then being against Right of Return for Palestinians is hypocritical, IMO.