Iran - will we soon face another aggressive act?

[DinoDoc]

Finns truely are God's people.

[Spiffor]

By us, it is a lame Tortues Ninja. At least it's simple.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Pekka
DD, they were called 'teinimutanttininjakilpikonnat' in finnish. Quite a word, huh?

Lacks umlauts and aa combinations. I approve.

[Spiffor]

However, it lacks a smurffi to be properly Finnish

[Kuciwalker]

[SIZE=1]Good, people-friendly investment is better than £0.40 / day, 18 hour shifts under armed guard, while medicines to cure pandemic illnesses like AIDS, and basic illnesses like cholera, TB etc are priced way out of the reach of these people

Just to point out something, there IS no cure for AIDS (nor is their a vaccine). It is amazing how many times I have to make this point.

[Whaleboy]

" 1. We didn't go into Afghanistan because of the people there. It was to punish a regime that hosted Al Queda. Also, the Northern Alliance was a pretty tenuous force before we went in. And remember there was a northern Kurdish force that backed us in Iraq"

News to me. If true, I retract my support for the campaign in Afghanistan, because revenge is counter-productive, immature, subjective, simplistic and irrelevent. Having said that, its a good vote winner, as the only thing it really does is restore nation pride. Hardly a good reason to go to war.

You are justified in helping the Northern Alliance, as there were clear distinct factions in that war.

The Kurds in the North had their own region of Iraq, not under the control of Saddam Hussein, and at the time of Gulf War II, he was not warring with the Kurds, trying to invade them. It was not a civil war, rather a cold civil war. This was not justified as an excuse to go to war, but nice try.

" 2. What evidence do you have that the Afghanis love us any more than the Iraqis? There are people in both countries who welcome us as liberators and those who resent us for toppling the old regime that benefitted them"

The taleban were a relatively new regime that was not a function of Afghan culture. Iraq, more or less, was a different story. Most Afghans I know respect the Americans for liberating their nation. Those who resent it are either warlords allied with the taleban (thus benefiting from them), or Islamic extremists, who are few in the population of Muslims.

In Iraq, most people on the ground it would appear are "lukewarm" at best about the Americans. Even the images which will no doubt become the symbol in the US of that war, the toppling of the statue in Baghdad, there were no more than a few hundred people present, in an area that could have fielded several thousand very quickly if they had supported it, and much more if they weren't warned to stay indoors!

" what was so funny? Did you laugh when the planes went into the buildings? I lost a reservist in the Pentagon. Was that funny too? If you don't understand our resolution, you should stick to your computer wargames"

Its not funny and I sympathise with your loss. What is funny is one using that to justify taking action against others, again the revenge thing. This is not the middle ages, we have something of a greater sensibility, I like to think. I understand your resolution as such, I just laugh at it because it is a fallacy, it is misguided, and it is counter-productive. That does not make 9/11 less funny, however, that date is history, it is past. We should not be avenging the people that died, like I said, this is not the Middle Ages and GWB is not Edward III.

"4. I never said it was black or white. Just showing that inaction has costs (as do actions) is showing that the matter is more complex than previosly portrayed. One very good lesson, I learned as a NAval officer was that innaction has a cost as well as action. (And this is not just wrt geopolitics or combat."

Indeed, inaction can cost lives, but then that is not blood on ones own hand, and it is a subjective event relative to your subjective inaction (if I mention subject!ve and object!ve one more time, you have my permission to declare war on me!). One can take action that does not cost lives as well, namely, diplomacy, political/economic pressure etc, without resorting to war.

What they probably didnt tell you in the navy was that inaction creates an equal and opposite inaction. The resultant equilibrium of that, is no need for inaction, because things evolve without interference (in this context). Nonetheless, like I said, you can influence using non-violent means, but not interfere/impede i.e. war. As such, it is not cut and dry between inaction and action.

With regards to saving lives, it is very much an entropy thing. One can be proactive, but there is a line that should not be crossed and that is war. Upon reaching that line, do what I do as a philosophy writer and let it be.

"Please tell me that they didn't call it that in the UK"

Guilty as charged. I dont think they like the word "ninja" in the BBFC, brings back disturbing memories of bruce lee films! Having said that, I was only like 7/8 when it was on lol.

[Whaleboy]

" Just to point out something, there IS no cure for AIDS (nor is their a vaccine). It is amazing how many times I have to make this point"

True of course. What I meant was the drugs that are used to control and suppress the symptoms, increasing length and quality of life.

[TCO]

Drop the pedantic "what the probably didn't tell you in the Navy.) You don't know **** about what I learned in the Navy or if I was indocrintated or if I developed a tougher, more critically thinking mind from it.

Other than that (and the weak, inaction begets inaction--really just a way of looking at the costs of action in reverse), it was a well-written post. Still don't agree with you. But well written.

[TCO]

Oh...and you should call them Ninjas. What is it with the Brits and martial arts?

[Kuciwalker]

Elijah, those drugs are incredibly expensive to PRODUCE, and highly toxic. They may keep you alive, but they are iffy propositions. We don't try to cure other viruses, why should we try to cure AIDS? Find a vaccine, sure, but trying to cure it is stupid.

[Whaleboy]

"Drop the pedantic "what the probably didn't tell you in the Navy.) You don't know **** about what I learned in the Navy or if I was indocrintated or if I developed a tougher, more critically thinking mind from it"

Figure of speech! You dont know what I know about the navy but you are free to correct me on false assumptions made.

I generally find boats give me claustrophobia, instead of philosophical insights... for that.... WEED!! joke .

Nonetheless, inaction does lead to an equal inaction in the long term, which is a good basis for cooperative relations. Game theory is a beautiful thing.

Thankyou for the compliment though. I compliment you on most of your reasoning and quality of writing, it is good to have a mature productive debate for once lol.

[Whaleboy]

"Elijah, those drugs are incredibly expensive to PRODUCE, and highly toxic. They may keep you alive, but they are iffy propositions. We don't try to cure other viruses, why should we try to cure AIDS? Find a vaccine, sure, but trying to cure it is stupid"

Great red herring really!

We should try to treat them because if not, many millions will die early, needless deaths, and people will be afraid of procreation!!! They arent that expensive to produce, I think one was about $0.80 per pill, sold at $29, 8 pills required as a daily dose, in a nation (bolivia? i forget, around that region) where peoples average earnings are something like $50 a week if theyre lucky.

Im thinking thats wrong. Also consider that the figures for R&D are grossly overstated, they do not factor in the much lower costs of "me too" drugs, derivatives with little R&D. For example, count the different versions of viagra! The production costs are relatively low.

"trying to cure it is stupid"

I was thinking honourable, economically sound (long term.. healthier people), and morally good!

Of course theyre toxic, which is why they should be given under good medical guidance like any drug.

[TCO]

Just giving you credit when you deserved it. I'll have to keep a watchful eye to see if you again approach greatness.

Doper.

[Whaleboy]

"Oh...and you should call them Ninjas. What is it with the Brits and martial arts"

Apparently they encourage our 5-year olds to start breaking planks of wood with their bare hands and cracking concrete slaps with their forehead. Having said that, one can achieve this perfectly well with a shopping trolley, a steep hill, and a bottle of decent scotch. *shoulder clicks*

[Whaleboy]

"I'll have to keep a watchful eye to see if you again approach greatness"

Its a chemically induced state that only occurs when one doesnt sleep for 72 hours.