Commitee of Strategic Planning

[binTravkin]

rather than one for each city, gang them up for better efficiency, but the numbers are OK.

If we chop chukos, each worker should chop for different city for maximum chop + overflow + whip efficency.

Will we exchange techs withthe nanas prior to invasion or not?

We definitely should, I just hope they get alphabet in time

Also, what about two new cities?

If we choose the peaceful route, we should build another, commerce city in a little time, but if not, we will take cities from Bananas (at which point having less cities will help upkeep).
The problem with more cities is that we have little were to place them as the best sites we have are plagued with tundra or cramped.

[binTravkin]

What about ignoring the G. lighthouse and instead heading to alphabet/maths? How long would it take us to get construction and catapults? As we're an industrious with marble, surely we should take a chance at the Great Library as well?

GL + Colossus + Harbours in every city + as much tradeable civs as possible (we should find them using 2 caravels) = MUCH commerce, that's what was all this GL plan about.
Even if we get to maths/construction sooner, our research will be slower without that commerce..

[Senethro]

We're only going to have 2ish coastal cities and harbours don't appear for quite a while. The Colossus makes good sense but I reckon we'd make more labs from the Great Library spamming Great Scientists.

[binTravkin]

We're only going to have 2ish coastal cities

Why so?
How does Colossus make sense then?

harbours don't appear for quite a while

They appear when we need them, by discovery of Compass.

but I reckon we'd make more labs from the Great Library spamming Great Scientists.

These options are not exclusive. Great Library is some 35+ turns away to even being started on and even then if we beeline straight for it without researching Fishing and Sailing (which add 10 turns of research), GL is 15-20 turns away from starting upon and 10more from being completed, Colossus could be started upon any time and is too some 10 turns from completion.

The difference is, that we're the only ones for now, who could be interested to have GL + Colossus as noone else started coastal IIRC and probably only a few have good coastal city potential, and the only ones who can build Colossus as per having MC so early and being industrious + having copper.

[Lacero]

the picture further up the thread shows us with 4 coastal cities.

SenNote: 2 of them are crap!

[binTravkin]

And if we go to war, we will have double that after it..

SenNote: We need to win the war first!

[Senethro]

Originally posted by binTravkin

Why so?
How does Colossus make sense then?

Its cheap, we're industrious, we have a forge, we have copper, we have the tech for it already.
It generates great merchant points which are rare to come by, and will generate 2/turn for a very long time. Bargain.

They appear when we need them, by discovery of Compass.

Its not exactly a tech along popular beelines.

These options are not exclusive. Great Library is some 35+ turns away to even being started on and even then if we beeline straight for it without researching Fishing and Sailing (which add 10 turns of research), GL is 15-20 turns away from starting upon and 10more from being completed, Colossus could be started upon any time and is too some 10 turns from completion.

The difference is, that we're the only ones for now, who could be interested to have GL + Colossus as noone else started coastal IIRC and probably only a few have good coastal city potential, and the only ones who can build Colossus as per having MC so early and being industrious + having copper.

But the Lighthouse won't be as fast to build, its on a tech of lower priority for our war.

What I'm worried about is that our war turns messy. You should always have a contingency plan and the one I'm proposing is a temporary peace after capturing two of their cities followed by an elephant/catapult reinforcement which will give us the power to finish them off.

If we waste time with the Lighthouse it will cause us to war less effectively and be less capable of responding if we don't manage to destroy them completely.

If the other civs do indeed have a lower number of coastal cities then we'll have all the time in the world to build it later.

[binTravkin]

Its cheap, we're industrious, we have a forge, we have copper, we have the tech for it already.
It generates great merchant points which are rare to come by, and will generate 2/turn for a very long time. Bargain.

You can get those two merchant points elsewhere cheaper, like going up to currency and running two merchants on market.
Colossus just for merchant points is a waste of time imo.

Its not exactly a tech along popular beelines.

Harbour is the only commerce boosting facility and coupled with GL it's bonus becomes up to 3 times bigger.

What I'm worried about is that our war turns messy. You should always have a contingency plan and the one I'm proposing is a temporary peace after capturing two of their cities followed by an elephant/catapult reinforcement which will give us the power to finish them off.

Well, I doubt there will be any intermediate solution as either we will overhelm them and capture everything (they are screwed even if we capture a single city) or we'll get stuck and will need to make peace.
I don't really believe that we could outright lose this war with this much technological advantage.

If we waste time with the Lighthouse it will cause us to war less effectively and be less capable of responding if we don't manage to destroy them completely.

The GL was also part of the plan to confuse the Bananas by building that and Colossus in 2 subsequent turns after acquiring GE.

However, I see your point and probably we should build swordsmen instead.
There's just one thing - by building a lot of war materiell, we warn Bananas - if they even watch power graphs, they will realise quickly, what are we doing.
One or two swordsmen could be ok, but more is getting suspicious.

If the other civs do indeed have a lower number of coastal cities then we'll have all the time in the world to build it later.

PJayTycy, you said two of civs have coastal cities, is there any more info about it (e.g. are any of those capitals, any updates on who's having coastal cities)?

But the Lighthouse won't be as fast to build, its on a tech of lower priority for our war.

Masonry - we have marble, sooner or later we will need it.
Fishing, Sailing - we are coastal and are going to build Colossus - we simply can't skip these.

I understand you're proposing Maths -> Construction, the problem with those is, research will take a lot of time and they will be ready once we attack at best.
What they give:
Elephants - we have no ivory
Catapults - we have a unit for collateral damage, so only useful for bombardment.

In fact, if we're the civ which is least dependant on construction from all the civs and I don't see a reason to waste ~30-35 (currently its 16+23) turns in researching expensive techs which give us little at the moment they're done, while less expensive and more beneficial techs haven't been researched.

We're simply so far ahead of the time in tech, that b-lining for something even ahead doesn't make sense.
We should improve our research to make any real progress, which goes down to getting more commerce and more multipliers for it.

[PJayTycy]

Originally posted by binTravkin
PJayTycy, you said two of civs have coastal cities, is there any more info about it (e.g. are any of those capitals, any updates on who's having coastal cities)?

If all squares in a cultural border are useable land, the territory expansion goes like this :
: 9, 21, 37, ...

These are all the cities with their territory expansions :

AC's capital: 6, 13, 21
AC's second: 9
Mercs' capital: 8, 17, 28
Mercs' second: 9
Vox' captial: 9, 21, 37
Vox' second: 9
Banana's capital: 9, 21, 37
Banana's second: 8, 18
Storm's capital: 9, 21, 37
Horde's capital: 8, 20, 36
Sarantium's capital: 9, 18, 26
Sarantium's second: 9


So, sea-based = AC's capital, Merc's capital, Banana's second.
Horde's capital probably has a fresh lake or something.

[binTravkin]

Im starting to think that there's one who could be interested to build GL:
Mercs

If they indeed pursue their policy of neutrality (and friendliness with all), it means they could be having a lot of trade routes open and thus a lot of commerce.
GL would make that up to double.

[binTravkin]

Here's a plan how to build 3 or more chukonus in a row at Beijing:

1.we start building Colossus to whip it exactly at the turn our GE is born for a maximum overflow (which could be 60hammers or more).
2.We finish chopping 3 forests at the end of the same turn.

What we have is a 20 * 2.75 = 55 * 3 = 165 hammer overflow from forests and ~60 hammer from whipping.
Next 4 or 5 turns sees us outputting 1 chukonu per turn.

Add 2 chukonus meanwhile produced at 2 other cities plus 3-4 swords pre-produced and one axe we have now and we have a decent army of 10+ units

[PJayTycy]

Overflow gets re-adjusted for bonusses. So, the overflow will look like 55 / forest at the end of the last collossus-turn, but we would only actually get 20 / forest.

[binTravkin]

Ech, too bad

[Maniac]

Originally posted by binTravkin
You can get those two merchant points elsewhere cheaper, like going up to currency and running two merchants on market.
Colossus just for merchant points is a waste of time imo.

Let's assume those Kolos merchant GPPs will contribute to the second GP limit of 200. Let's assume we can then instaresearch a 1000 point tech with it. That means 2 merchant GPP = 10 beakers. Which is more than what a library can give us. Seems like the choice is obvious to me.

[Senethro]

Originally posted by Maniac


Let's assume those merchant GPPs will contribute to the second GP limit of 200. Let's assume we can then instaresearch a 1000 point tech with it. That means 2 merchant GPP = 10 beakers. Which is more than what a library can give us. Seems like the choice is obvious to me.

But we would sacrifice growth to do this as we would need 4 excess food to do this. We would also have to stop working either cottages or mines. Now the maths is less simple.


Maniac: I DanSed you.