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Banana: Diplomacy Thread #2

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  • Third draft with Swiss' and Zeviz's ammendments:

    Dear Donovan,

    Two parts to this email. Firstly, news of PAL. They have contacted us out of the blue and want to be friends again. They want to open borders and trade techs and resources. We have been wondering why, and have come up with the following reasons:

    1) They are planning on declaring on you and realise that they'll lose more trade routes, hence they want to open borders with us.
    2) They are suffering war weariness with rabbits and expect to get more with you, hence they want happy resources.
    3) They want to disrupt RB/banana trade deals.

    Don't worry, we won't get sucked in by them. In fact, we've been thinking of asking you for an anti-PAL pact. We think that trading techs and resources with PAL is a prisoner's dilemma. If we both agree not to do it then we both benefit. The situation is that we are teching very well together and PAL are jealous. PAL researches faster than either of us separately, but not so fast as the two of us together!

    We would again like you to consider closing borders with PAL. This will deprive their team of Great Lighthouse-powered trade routes, which are fueling their research currently.

    Secondly, teching and horses.

    Horses for longer could be possible but it will disappoint our general who has been looking forward to having them back. But we recognise the precariousness of your situation and they are on the table.

    After the Edu for Astro trade goes through, we need to pool our research abilities to get chemistry and steel on one hand, and PP, Rep Parts & Rifling on the other. There's no way we can hurt PAL without having all these military techs. PP might not be useful to you in itself, but it's a prerequisite for pretty much everything good in the mid-term (Sci-Meth, Biology, Rifling), and would be a big boost for our cottage economy.

    What we propose is that we give you education next turn. Then you bulb printing press (finishing the tech if necessary) and gift it to us, then complete astronomy. After knocking out optics, we start on Chemistry whilst you complete Astro and start on Rep Parts. We complete Chemistry and gift it to you, and start on Steel. You complete Rep Parts and start on Rifling, gifting to us on completion. In ~ 15 turns we'll probably (90%) get a GS ourselves, and part-bulb on Sci Meth, which we'll complete once Steel is done, and we'll gift both these techs to you. We can give you horses until T170.

    Base Beakers from Banana: PP 1600, Astro 2000, Rep Parts 1800, Rifling 2400 = 7800

    Base Beakers from Team RB: Edu 1800, Chem 1800, Steel 2400, Sci Meth 2400 = 8400

    Or we could spread around techs differently if our research rate turns out to be faster than yours. The main part is for both of us to get all of these techs as soon as possible. Alternatively we could just forget about beakers totally and agree to gift everything we research.

    Let us know what you think,

    Team Realms Beyond
    Last edited by sooooo; July 8, 2009, 05:05.

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    • Sounds good.

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      • Fine by me.

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        • Alright, last chance for objections. I'll send it in about an hour before I sit down to watch the cricket and enjoy the gold coins roll in from Ruff Hi.

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          • Oh, actually, I think we should phrase it so that he finishes PP (if necessary) before finishing astronomy. PP will be awesome for us and if we can get it in the next two turns that would be great. I'll edit the third draft.

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            • Send it and go watch that cricket
              She said 'Your nose is running honey' I said 'Sorry but it's not'

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              • Email sent with MyOtherCar's attachment.

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                • email back from Banana ...

                  Hey Realms,

                  I'll be checking out the attachment in a few hours. I'll be cutting off Open Borders on Turn 167.

                  As far as tech goes, I'll have to look at some things. We will be getting another GP in 4-5 turns and really enjoyed the production and civics flexibilty from our last GA. So it will be hard to talk us out of that.

                  I'll write more in a few hours.

                  Regards,
                  Donovan
                  Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
                  Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
                  woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

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                  • EDIT: ninjad!

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                    • Poo. I guess there's not much chance it'll be another scientist, but we should ask him anyway.

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                      • Does he need to switch civics so badly? If not, the production is nice, as we know, but he can also get production by drafting and slaving.

                        Question for micro experts: Would Banana get more combined beakers and hammers over, say, the critical next 30 turns with a golden age, or with 2 lightbulbs and the culture slider raised a few notches to create extra happiness and allow more drafting/whipping?

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                        • I would guess he wants a golden age when war breaks out - makes sense really especially as he can use the extra commerce on a military tech rather than PP which is of no immediate value to him.

                          If he's determined to save the scientist for a golden age then I suppose we should research PP and let him go for chemistry.

                          He should really go back to representaion. The production bonus from Police State is not worth it.

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                          • Well, at least Donovan is planning to cut his Open Borders agreement with PAL. That's pretty noteworthy - we will soon have reduced PAL's trading to Imperio alone, which won't be worth too much. Even less once we start burning down Imperio cities.

                            In terms of teching and domestic management, Donovan isn't quite so sharp. Not sure why he wants another Golden Age so badly - those are best saved for civics changes to avoid the Anarchy, and he just swapped civics like 2 turns ago! Agree though that we definitely need to get Banana out of Police State. For a civ whose economy is based around a specialist economy, dropping out of Representation is just foolishness.

                            If Donovan is obsessed with teching Chemisty next, I say we go ahead and let him. We can do Printing Press just as easily. Getting to Rifling is hugely important, so we can start drafting/upgrading rifles. With our expansive (and growing) empire, we'll be able to solidify control of our continent for sure, if we don't already have it by then.

                            What would the tech situation look like if we went for Printing Press next instead of Banana?

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                            • Spoke to banana in-game. Some good news. Firstly they agreed to trade maps with us and we can now see both Eisenburg (again) and now Elephantine. And more of the new world.

                              Secondly, banana blundered because he didn't realise that you need two different GPs to start a GA! He gets another great person in 3 turns (T166) and it's 78% to be another scientist! We worked things out and discovered that if it's another scientist he can lightbulb both PP and chemistry with 2 GSs if he does it before he gets astronomy (to block Sci Meth which is otherwise higher than chemistry).

                              I gave him education.

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                              • That's great news! We'll be caught up with PAL in no time .

                                Darrell

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