Turnplayed Thread #4

[sooooo]

I know we are saving money to go full steam on Nationalism ... but do we want to knock out Drama so we can get the required theatres up and start on The Globe? Obviously, war effort comes first.

Yes, we do want drama next. We should dial up research to get it on the same turn we get the GS.

Ideally we would want to build Green Acres' theater last, so that we can whip it and overflow into the Globe. The globe is going to take a long time to build and we should use whip overflow whenever possible

Don't forget we also need to build a barracks in this city and Sullla suggested to whip a settler from it too.

[T-hawk]

The Drama / Nationalism trade-offs are not clear in either direction. Drama will delay Nationalism and drafting by about two turns, in exchange for having the Globe Theater ready ten turns sooner. I lean towards Nationalism first -- it sounds folly to delay nationwide drafting for the sake of one city.

We don't want to whip-overflow into the Globe too extensively -- we need population for actual drafting!

[sooooo]

@T-Hawk - how did you calculate the 10 turns sooner figure? Is that assuming that the 5 other cities whip their theatres immediately after getting the tech or that they build them naturally?

Also, 10 turns later on the globe is 10 fewer units if we get the city set up right. Delay of 2 turns for the other cities is worth 10 more units and the flexibility to build theatres in the other cities when we can fit them in, not having to whip them at a certain time. And I believe it will be more than 10 extra turns to build 6 theatres and then the globe theatre.

[T-hawk]

I figure 10 turns, because Nationalism will take about 8 turns to research, plus two because we can start Drama now rather than wait for the Philosophy lightbulb. The time to build the theaters and Globe stays (roughly) the same whether Drama comes first or later, so that factors out of the comparison.


Also, 10 turns later on the globe is 10 fewer units if we get the city set up right.

Not quite - Green Acres can't grow every single turn at size 6. 10 turns on the globe is about 7 units.

I just think we've delayed Nationalism worryingly many times already, first for Engineering and then for the Golden Age. I could be convinced otherwise though. The wild card in support of Drama is if we can line up trade value for it, most likely for Paper with Banana, although that pushes off the Nationalism-Guilds trade yet again.

[Zeviz]

The real unit count is even closer, because anger wears off in 10 turns, so even without Globe we'd draft at least 1 unit in 10 turns from Green Acres. So tradeoff is: 6 extra units from Green Acres, vs. starting the drafting 2 turns earlier. Since initially we will not be happiness-limited, starting drafting 2 turns earlier will give us exactly same number of units in the short run, but we'll get them earlier. So going to Nationalism first looks like a better idea.

[ruff_hi]

We should try and get Green Acres up and running as a draft machine as soon as possible. Drafting is +3 angry. My thinking is that we build the theatres and the Globe while we are researching Nationalism. It shouldn't matter if the Globe is not totally finished by the time we start drafting at Green Acres as (I think) we have some happiness room there.

I've found that I run out of cities to draft due to the anger penalty. With the Globe up and running, we only have to find 2 other cities to draft, instead of 3 each turn.

Zeviz's trade off is a zero sum game ... 2 turns of drafting only nets you 6 units.

Let rego run some sims so that we can see the difference between Drama then Nationalism v Nationalism then Drama.

[sunrise089]

I trust your numbers more than my feelings, but to me Globe first seems like the much better choice.

[sooooo]

I figure 10 turns, because Nationalism will take about 8 turns to research, plus two because we can start Drama now rather than wait for the Philosophy lightbulb.

Nationalism takes a lot longer than 8 turns. If I dial up research to 100%, then it says 10 turns. That's at an unsustainable rate, losing 81 gpt, which we can only do for 4 turns. And that's in a golden age! 3 turns in and our research drops considerably. I can't be bothered to work out our GPT at non-golden age pace, so I can't put a figure on how long nationalism will take. I worked out that it would take 14 turns at a sustainable pace if all of those 14 turns were golden age turns. Which, of course, only 3 are.

The time to build the theaters and Globe stays (roughly) the same whether Drama comes first or later, so that factors out of the comparison.

But if we were to have drama now we could have much more flexibility over how we build the theatres. If we were to get nationalism first, we would presumably need to get our 6 cities to a state where we whip or chop them asap. We might not want to do that, we might want to hand-build a theatre in airstrip one for example and not whip/chop it. Also worker-turns for chopping are severely limited.

I changed Airstrip One to monastery BTW. I didn't revolt to Islam and Org Rel yet since not enough people have commented on that. But we really should do it this turn!

[ruff_hi]

"revolt to Islam and Org Rel" for me. Lets get some religion and really go for "-4 we hate your religion" with Templar. We have Islam in A1, SF and GA.

[regoarrarr]

I support revolting this turn.

[Dreylin]

Anarchy!!!!!

Oh, yeah, right. Guess I have to save that for later....

[MyOtherCar]

Me too, shaves a turn from the forge as well, I believe.

BTW, if that is helpfull I'm working on an excelsheet to analyze city management. I intend it to calculate food, hammers and gold, growth and build times per turn, while manually assigning tiles to be worked. Unless of course on of the micromanagers in our team has already something to help with that.

[Dreylin]

Oh, when I logged in I saw that we still have Persephone(?) guarding the Tundra in the North. I'm pretty certain she's not needed for fogbusting, so could she head South for MP duty? Maybe towards Red as that is nearest the front line, or Bluebell as that is likely to need MP soonest.

Whoever logs in next should probably wake her up and then skip turn. I'm sure the reason she's been standing there so long is because she doesn't activate.

[T-hawk]

See here for my Excel sheet. It has semi-manual tile assignment, and includes formulas for granary growth and hammer overflow.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5564667#post5564667

[Zeviz]

Another vote for Islam + Org Rel.

And if Nationalism will take about 20 turns, then Drama first does make sence.