Cloak & Dagger

[Sullla]

mh, do you by any chance have screenshots of the Demographics screen for the two turns I missed, T112 and T113? If so, could you post them in this thread? It would let me fill in a few missing pieces of info. Thanks.

Also, I think you are a little off on Banana's score for T113. They discovered a Classical tech that turn, then gained a Medieval one in mid-turn. Since they immediately revolted to Bureaucracy, my guess is that they received Civil Service from PAL in a delayed trade... probably researched Math and then were traded CS, just like us!

[mostly-harmless]

Yep, its in my notes, but I forgot to update the post with Bananas score. Its like you said.

The demo screens will come in 12 hours or so. They are on they other machine.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

T112: After PAL whip and Rabbits Barb City.
mh

[mostly-harmless]

T114: After whips fro PAL and Rabbits.
mh

[mostly-harmless]

T115:

PAL: pop (??? [5]) & pop (??? [6])
Rabbit:
Banana: 2x classical tech trade from end of last turn, Literature will be added this turn & pop (??? [5]) & new city (Doal [1])
Imperio: classical tech trade from last turn & Literature will be added this turn
Templars:
RB: pop & land & two whips

Population census:
PAL 38 (size 9,6,5,5,4,4,3,2)
RB 32 (8,6,5,5,4,2,1,1)
Imp 32 (10,7,5,5,3,2)
Ban 24 (8,7,5,3,1) (updated after new city)
Tem 18 (5,5,5,2,1)
Rab 9 (5,3,1)

Treasury report:
Templars: 84gold (-2gpt) (trade screen)
Imperio: 247 (+-0gpt) (trade screen) Anarchy
PAL: 55gold (-7gpt) (trade screen)
Rab: 38gold (-4gpt) (trade screen)
Banana: 46 (?) (trade screen)

Production:
Imperio:
No changes - anarchy

Templars:
Jerusalem - finished build
Jericho - finished build
Damaskus - finished build
Acre 8 (+-?)

Rabbits:
Caerbannog 21
Diggers Burrow 0
Phrygian 0

PAL:
Heliopolis 63 (+54hpt) back to old queue item?
Alexandria 62 (+-?)

In other news Imperio adopted Vassalage and Organized Religion (but not Slavery).
Also Banana are gifting Templars a fish. What we can read into that, I don't know.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

Templars are probably struggling for healthiness is Jerusalem if they haven't cleared that jungle yet.

[mostly-harmless]

Banana settled their 5th city "Doal", giving us back 1GNP from intercontinental trade, but somehow we lost our trade connection to Rabbits and lost again 3GNP trading with Templars now in Mellow Yellow and Saxon the Beach.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

T116:

PAL: pop Giza? [3] & 12 points not accounted for & whip Giza? [2] {could be land points, will know better next turn. T96 was the turn we reloaded, so my screenshots are messed up}
Rabbit: whipped Diggers Burrow [2]
Banana: land points
Imperio: pop - Calakmul [3] & classical tech learned (Compass)
Templars: 2x pop Constantinople [6] & Damaskus [6]
RB: pop - Green Acres [3] & classical tech learned (HBR)

Population census:
PAL 38 (size 9,6,5,5,4,4,3,2)
RB 33 (8,6,5,5,4,3,1,1)
Imp 33 (10,7,5,5,3,3)
Ban 24 (8,7,5,3,1)
Tem 20 (6,6,5,2,1)
Rab 8 (5,2,1)

Treasury report:
Templars: 80gold (-4gpt)
Imperio: 265(+18gpt)
PAL: 63gold (+8gpt) pillaging
Rab: 38gold (+-0gpt)
Banana: 45 (-1gpt)

Production:
will leave that to Sullla

mh

[mostly-harmless]

T117:

PAL: 4 x pop - The Warning [10], Alexandria[5] & two more cities
Rabbit: pop - Diggers Burrow [3]
Banana: pop - Banapolis [8]
Imperio: pop - Mayapan [4]
Templars:
RB: 4 x pop

Population census:
PAL 43 (size 10,6,6,5,5,4,4,3)
RB 34 (8,5,5,5,4,4,2,1)
Imp 34 (10,7,5,5,4,3)
Ban 25 (8,8,5,3,1)
Tem 20 (6,6,5,2,1)
Rab 9 (5,3,1)

Treasury report:
Templars: 78gold (-2gpt)
Imperio: 283gold (+18gpt)
PAL: 59gold (-4gpt)
Rab: 37gold (-1gpt)
Banana: 44 (-1gpt)

Imperio logged in recently and our horses are still connected. Would we actually be informed about a failed sabotage?

mh

[sooooo]

Yes, we would be informed by a failed sabotage. Let's hope our warning email to them worked.

[Swiss Pauli]

It's possible that they are simply waiting to pillage our copper when it's reconnected, or they might defer the horse sabotage until later in the (reloaded) turn.

[T-hawk]

If I'm right, we get informed that a spy was caught causing trouble. We don't get informed as to exactly what the spy was doing. Yes, Imperio could do their mischief anytime in the turn.

[mostly-harmless]

T118:

PAL: 3 x pop & medieval tech learned [Philo]
Rabbit:
Banana: pop - Banana Pudding [9] & classical tech learned [Compass]
Imperio: pop - Uxmal [6]
Templars:
RB: 10 x pop & wonder & land points


Population census:
PAL 45 (size 10,7,6,6,5,5,3,3)
RB 44 (10,7,6,6,5,5,3,2)
Imp 35 (10,7,6,5,4,3)
Ban 26 (9,8,5,3,1)
Tem 20 (6,6,5,2,1)
Rab 9 (5,3,1)

Treasury report:
Templars: 75gold (-3gpt)
Imperio: 274gold (-9gpt)
PAL: 56gold (-3gpt)
Rab: 37gold (+/-0gpt)
Banana: 47 (+3gpt)

Imperio was logged in as the turn started. They were the only ones looking at the game for T118 until I logged in. So even if the epts are not subtracted for a failed attempt (which is weird, what is the punishment? did they loose the spy unit?) we can be 100% certain that it was their spy attempting mischief near Cape Town this turn.

PAL has not logged in yet to decide what religion to pick, so we don't know officially know they got one (no event listed yet).

Production:
Mutal pulled something from their incomplete queue list I believe.
Lakamha got a War Elephant (visible with Catapult in city) (I hope Sulla does not mind if I move scouting units to get the C&D report done?).
mh

[T-hawk]

So even if the epts are not subtracted for a failed attempt (which is weird, what is the punishment? did they lose the spy unit?)

Right on both counts. For a failed spy attempt, EP is not lost but the spy unit is.

The mechanism is somewhat of a response to Civ 3 spying, which only used cash, not spy units. On pure random swing, sometimes a tech could be stolen for half its beaker cost, and sometimes you'd need several attempts and end up spending double or more. That was too much of an economic swing - particularly in Sirian's eyes - and the cost mechanism was changed for Civ 4.

It's possible we caught the spy passively between turns rather than in response to a direct action. I'm not sure if there's a distinction in the in-game messages. There isn't in single player. Those who were looking at the game at the time might be able to confirm based on the timing. Although there's no functional difference.

But anyway, the fact that Imperio took care to be logged in as the turn rolled over, plus the fact that we calculated their spy movement from the last action, both point strongly to a deliberate spy action.

On another note, nobody got any big cash refund. Seems that we were the only ones going for the Hanging Gardens.

[ruff_hi]

It's possible we caught the spy passively between turns rather than in response to a direct action. I'm not sure if there's a distinction in the in-game messages. There isn't in single player.

Is that correct? In a certain game that I am playing I get 2 types of 'AI spy failure' messages ...

1) A spy was caught
2) A German spy was caught

Are they from the same action but the 2nd spy was really unlucky?