Cloak & Dagger

[mostly-harmless]

And Turn24 with major news.
From the initial ingame scores we can see that:
PAL has grown to size 4 already and has gained a tech.
Rabbits have gained a tech
RB gets 16 points awarded for owning the second ring for 20 turns (12 tiles x 1.33333).

However, we see a drop in PALs ingame score from 76 to 67 after they logged in.
Now what happened there. -9 points is exactly the loss of 2 pop points (remember they now count either 4 or 5 with the patch). This is confirmed from the Top5 cities screen where PALs capital is now back to size 2.
So they whipped their capital for 2 pop points.
That implies PAL knows Bronze Working and has already spent a turn of anarchy to swap to Slavery.
What puzzles me a bit is the fact that they have not worked on a settler, because they have just grown to size 4.

Did they emergency whip a military unit? Or maybe they put some hammers into a settler already, decided to grow first and then switched back to the settler and whipped him?

We also see a massive increase in soldier points by 10000!

So at least one of the two techs gained by PAL and Rabbits this turn must have been military relevant, and worth quite a lot. Horseback Riding and Iron Working are both 10000 points techs. I assume HBR is out for being to expensive for turn 24, right? I also think the 200beakers for IW are not possible that early. Both team s do not have a worker yet to improve tiles.
So it is more likely both teams got a relevant tech summing up to 10000. For example Archery(6000) & The Wheel(4000).

Input from our pro player regarding the whipping strategy is welcome.

mh

[sunrise089]

Iron Working and HBR are both "pop-able" from huts, right?

[sooooo]

Yes it is not too early to pop either of those techs.

[mostly-harmless]

Correct, but both techs were gained by research, since the ingame score was awarded at turn start. Popped techs will give an ingame score rise when the players are logged in and move the scouts. You can follow that in the civstat log file.
mh

[Sullla]

Here's a question I have for the Cloak and Dagger group. On the Demographics screen, you can see that we are #3 in land area. Our capital is also listed as #3 in terms of culture on the top 5 cities screen (makes sense). We know that the Templars are #1, since they founded a religion. My question is this: who could possibly be ahead of us, and reached #2 status? We're the only Creative civ in the game. Only one religion has been founded, and no wonders have been built as yet... right? How could any other capital city have more culture than our Creative one at this point in the game?

I've been puzzling over this, and I'm very curious as to what's going on out there.

[sunrise089]

I didn't think the Top 5 cities screen was only determined by cultural output...is there another view I'm not familiar with?

[mostly-harmless]

I was also under the impression, that the Top 5 cities are not determined by culture alone, but rather by size in the early years.
This is evident when you look at the Top 5 cities screen from turn 21, where we are actually last with our size 1 city.

I cannot see a way that another city is ahead of us in culture at this time apart from the Templars.

mh

[Sullla]

OK, well even if I'm wrong about the top five cities list, we ARE #3 in land area. How can someone else be ranked #2, between us and the Templars? We're completely landlocked, so we should be tied for #2. No one else, other than the Templars, can have reached 100 culture yet, right?

Still confused.

EDIT: You guys are correct about the formula for the top 5 cities. Here's what I found:

It's in Python. CvInfoScreen.py:

iTotalCityValue = ((pCity.getCulture() / 5) + (pCity.getFoodRate() + pCity.getProductionRate() \
+ pCity.calculateGoldRate())) * pCity.getPopulation()

In case it would ever prove useful to us...

[mostly-harmless]

@ Sullla: I am no sure the demographics ranking recognizes a tie.
After all look at the approval rate where we have 71%, the best rival has 71% and we are listed 3rd.

Anyway the current land tile ranking is as follows:
1. Templars = 30
2. Imperio = 21
2. RB = 21
4. Rabbits = 14
5. PAL = 13
6. Banana = 6

We will take the lead in land area in a couple of turns jumping to 37.

mh

EDIT: corrected PAls and Rabbits land, after additional info has become available.

[Sullla]

OK, that's a relief. Thanks for pointing that out, mostly_harmless. I wonder how the Demographics screen breaks ties anyway (?) Won't matter once we get outside the early stages of the game, since ties will become real rarities.

[mostly-harmless]

Turn25

Two teams increase their ingame score.
PAL & Templars gain points for owning their second ring (7 & 9 tiles) for 20 turns. These are the only ones for this turn, as they settled in place, whereas everybody else moved and will get their points awarded later (except for cultural RB of course).

Apart from that nothing changed initially.
However our analyst spotted an ingame score decrease by 4 for Banana after they logged in.
A sure sign they whipped their capital.
Again also implying that they know BW (which we noticed already in turn 20) and have swapped to Slavery.

So their capital is back to size 2.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

Turn 26

Ingame score increases for
Rabbits (for owning their second ring = 8tiles for 20 turns)
Imperio (for owning their second ring = 12tiles for 20 turns)
Banana (for owning their second ring = 3tiles for 20 turns)
RB (for gaining a tech = BW)

For the records, here is the demographics screen:


mh

[regoarrarr]

Can we get a recap of each team and what we know about them (size of capital / techs known / builds / etc).

Of course we can't know everything but we could make some guesses and it might be useful to have it all in one post.

I thought I remember someone doing something like this a few turns ago and I looked for it to give us a start at updating it (rather than having to create it from scratch) but could not find it

[mostly-harmless]

I will be away for a couple of days, but wil take care of it on the weekend.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

Turn27




The Ministry of Truth was puzzled by our increase in soldier points by 2000 instead of 1000 for employing Gogo the warrior. Checking the numbers the MoT was further puzzled how we got up 17000 points over all last turn.
It looks like that with the patch the value of a warrior was increased from 1000 to 2000 points. However, nothing is stated in the change log, so we don't know what else they changed. That is annoying and makes our lives harder analysing the demo screen unfortunately.
It also means the early power graph is now more weighted towards real units than before, which is good for our bluff IF the Templars know about that change.


mh