Cloak & Dagger

[Sullla]

The disparity in Solider points is indeed troubling, mostly_harmless. Let's calculate up our own points and see the full tally:

Population
size 2 = 1000

Technologies
Hunting 2000
Mining 2000
Animal Husbandry 2000
Bronze Working 8000

Total = 15,000

We have two warriors, so obviously each are worth 2000 points for the total of 19,000. Perhaps one of the undocumented patch changes was to double the value of all military units in soldier count (?) We'll have to experiment and find out.

We will be able to see the Templars' Demographics next turn, which will yield more useful information.

[mostly-harmless]

I made a quick check on the change in soldier points calculation.
I only checked out a few techs and there seems to be no changes.
The same for buildings (checked barracks, stable) and pop points.
However, there are significant changes to how much soldier points units give.
Here is a small list of early units and their updated soldier points for BtS 3.17 (filled out completely by Sullla):

2000 - Warrior, Quecha, Galley
3000 - Archer, Trireme, Caravel
4000 - Spearman, Holkar, Chariot, War Chariot, Galleon, Airship,
5000 - Catapult
6000 - Axeman, Swordsman, Horse Archer, Pikeman, Landsknecht, Longbow, Privateer, Guided Missile
7000 - Crossbow, Cho-Ko-Nu
8000 - Trebuchet, War Elephant, Frigate
9000 - Maceman, Musketman, Oromo Warrior
10000 - Knight, Ship of the Line
12000 - Cannon, Cuirassier, Grenadier, Ironclad, Fighter
14000 - Rifleman, Machine Gun, Missile Cruiser, Anti-Tank
15000 - Cavalry
16000 - Transport, Carrier, Bomber
18000 - SAM Infantry, Artillery
20000 - Infantry, Stealth Bomber
22000 - Mobile SAM
24000 - Jet Fighter
26000 - Gunship, Mobile Artillery
28000 - Marine, Submarine
30000 - Tank, Paratrooper, Destroyer, Attack Submarine, Stealth Destroyer, Tactical Nuke
32000 - Mechanized Infantry
40000 - Modern Armor, Battleship, ICBM

For comparison, here is the list of units as it used to be when we started the game:

1000 soldiers – Warrior, Quechua
2000 soldiers – Spearman, Archer, Chariot
3000 soldiers – Axeman

I don't have time to go through the whole list of units.
Any volunteers?

mh

[mostly-harmless]

Turn 28 has began.

Banana increased their ingame points by 6 to 61.
So they learned a tech.
And not a military relevant one, since the soldier points have not be changed since the last turn.
Here the demographics screen:


I noticed that someone manipulated the Espionage point assignment to give all 4ept to Templars and none to Imperio.

I assume this to see the Templars Demographics asap?
Or is there a more sinister scheme at work?
I would be in favor to always assign enough points to Templars to see their demographics.

I looked at the Templars graphs that have become visible this very turn and put some annotation onto them.

GNP:

We are ahead in the beginning due to our additional 2cpt. The the Templars finish research into Meditation on turn 11 and gain the additional 5cpt from the holy city from turn 12 onwards.
Interestingly it seems the GNP drops temporarily by 2 in every turn a tech is researched (Templars t11 & t21; RB t12 & t26).

Production:

It can be seen that they switched their worked tile after racing to Mediation. The increase in city size is visible on turns 15 & 23.
Currently running at 3hpt, which is not much if they really go for Stonehenge, even with being industrious.

Food:

The food graph shows the switch in the worked tile on turn 12 after they successfully won the Meditation race, now emphasizing food. Also shown the increase in city size on turns 15 & 23.
Templars are currently running only with 2 excess food.

Power:

Here the history of soldier points for the Templars.
T1: Initial Quecha = 1000
T8: Quecha built -> +1000 = 2000
T15: Jerusalem (capital) grows to size 2 -> +1000 = 3000
T17: Quecha built -> +1000 = 4000
T22: military relevant tech popped from a hut -> +2000 = 6000
T24: Quecha built -> +2000 (post patch) = 8000

Templars are not doing very well in food and production with their 3 worked tiles. However they seem to generate more beakers per turn than we are currently (two more per turn), which is indicating that they again emphasizing research over everything else.
Could they go for the next religion???

mh

[Sullla]

Originally posted by mostly-harmless I noticed that someone manipulated the Espionage point assignment to give all 4ept to Templars and none to Imperio.

I assume this to see the Templars Demographics asap?
Or is there a more sinister scheme at work?
I would be in favor to always assign enough points to Templars to see their demographics.

I apologize, that was my doing. We only had a few hours left in the turn, and we would not have been able to see the Templars Demographics this turn with the 2/2 split of points. There wasn't enough time to discuss it with the team. Not something I would do normally, very sorry about that.

The discussion of how to spend our Espionage points should be its own thread, actually. I'll go ahead and create one.

[sooooo]

Excellent work analysing the graphs mostly harmless!

[Zeviz]

These annotated graphs are very helpful.

[sunrise089]

Very nice work on the graphs.

[mostly-harmless]

A quick update on the race for the pink dot.
Just in case Templars are not building Stonehenge right now, but are working on a settler.
A settler costs 100hammers.
Templars could have switched to settler production on turn 25 after finishing their Quecha. Since then they are putting 3 shields & 2food into settler production, plus 1hammer from overflow.
That will give them a settler on turn 44. They will need at least 3 turns to move him into a position that could endanger pink dot.
There is potential for the Templars to speed that up by researching BW, swapping to anarchy and whipping the settler.
That will give us one turn forewarning as we do not have to suffer a turn of anarchy. But we will need 6 turns from settler production to founding pink dot.
So if the Templars are staying away from BW we are fine, as our settler will finish on turn 37.
We are also fine should we observe the Templars jumping to size 4 on turn 36.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

Turn 29
In game score increase by 4 for Imperio & RB, because of both capital growing to size 6.

For the records, the demo screen:


Nothing more of interest.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

Turn 30

PAL sees their ingame score reduced by 4 to 72 after they logged in, indicating they whipped their capital again. This time for one pop down to size 1.

And the demo screen:


The reduction in soldier points and population is consistent with PAL whipping their capital from size 2 to 1.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

Turn 31

Nothing!




From the foreign relations we can see that we are still the only ones on our continent to have contacted PAL.
However, from the espionage points assigned by PAL towards us (2ept) we can deduct that PAL has contact to one other civ on their continent. If they are actively managing their espionage points they could have met two other civs of course.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

Turn 32

Rabbits gained 6 ingame points suggesting a tech researched.

From the demo screen,


we can see that the soldier points went up by 4000 accumulated across all our rivals.

So the Rabbits could have learned a military relevant tech worth maximum 4000 soldier points (keep in mind that other civs could have built a warrior on the same turn, so the tech might be worth less.)

mh

[mostly-harmless]

Turn 33

Interesting turn.
RB jumps to the top of ingame score (85) by gaining a tech (The Wheel). This gives us 6 points.

PAL also see their score increased at the start of the turn by 6, implying they also researched a tech this turn (as the soldier points increased it could be a military relevant one).

After logging in we see PALs score rise further by 4 points (to 82).
4 points increase after log in = pop point gained after log in = city founded.
PAL settled their second city.

This is confirmed by the demoscreen:


Notice how the worst rival has 2000 population. This is only possible with two size 1 cities as a size 2 city is already equal to 6000 population.

Also look at the increase of average land size. From turn 32 to turn 33 we see additional 9000 km^2 increase. That means PAL settled their second city off the coast with no water tiles in their first ring.

The soldier points increased by 3000 points.
This would be consistent with one archer finished by some civ and a military irrelevant tech researched by PAL or a military relevant tech researched worth 3000
EDIT:
There is no longer a unit that gives only 1000 points and there is no tech that gives either 1000 or 3000 points.
Therefore we talking about an archer here.
Will have to edit this post later this week.

mh

[Sullla]

More great work, mostly_harmless!

I'm glad that PAL isn't on our continent, given their rapid, whip-happy start. Since we are the only one on our continent who's contacted them, maybe we can try to work with them (?) Actually, I might type that up in a separate post.

[Zeviz]

Thanks for the update.

It does look like PAL is expanding quite rapidly and might dominate their continent.