Civ III, Don't Buy If SP only

[dennis580]

Slowhand obviously you are not mature enough to play a game like Civ3. I suggest you stick to your all flash and no substance click infested-action kiddy RTS games. While the rest of us play a real STRATEGY game where you actually use your brain and not just your reflexes.

[Earwicker]

Originally posted by Wiglaf


for one thing, imagine what six months of development time can do for the AI, etc. Also, if I buy civ3, I'll feel like I'm being cheated so Firaxis can get rich quick over the holiday season.

I don't remember that the AI was any better in the Civ2 expansion than in the vanilla version. My chief impression was that the time between Civ2 release and release of its expansion was spent figuring out a way to disable the GOTO command.

[tniem]

Originally posted by dennis580
Slowhand obviously you are not mature enough to play a game like Civ3. I suggest you stick to your all flash and no substance click infested-action kiddy RTS games. While the rest of us play a real STRATEGY game where you actually use your brain and not just your reflexes.

That is not what he is saying at all. I can beat the AI almost everytime I play. I have no doubt that this will carry over to Civ3. However, I know that I will lose to most of the Civ2 MP players because they are just amazing at the different strategies.

Those that have only played SP don't know the true joys of having an adaptable opponent.

[Wiglaf]

tniem, I'll just touch up on your main points, rather than threadjack this thing to pieces .

Just because the game is a million seller, does not mean it is good, or that it will do well in the future. I know MANY products, videogames especially, that went out to the market because their concept was novel and did very well there, only to be spat upon by disgusted fans a few days later. Hence, if a game sells tons of copies but it isn't good, lookout. If I release a horrific baseball game that sold because of ads or name recognition, and then released an awesome baseball game the next year, it wouldn't do as well. Therefore the initial sales were counterproductive. Same thing carries over to The Sims - all the expansions, while definitely not 'horrific', aren't too great either, and people will eventually not keep shelling out the cash. And that refers back to civ3.

so, to answer your question,

So having everyone hear about your game and buy it hurts the game? Makes sense.

sometimes, yes it can. if civ3 is a million seller and it is a terrible game, firaxis would have tough times rebounding.

edit/

Wow, are you saying the concept of the Sims dates back to 1990-92 because of Sim City? If so are you saying that the sims is just a sim game and so the concept goes back to then?

I was talking about other games maxis sort of ripped off, like little computer people from earlier in the decade -- I really think we should get off the sims-specific talk and make it more about civ though

[aaglo]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
SP is for pansies.
....

Hmm... very interesting. I didn't know, that you could tell THAT from the gametypes people like to play... now come on, that is not very constructive. Perhaps you don't know that all people don't have the time or opportunity to play games like civIII MP. In that case you have to be a pansy.
Grow up, SlowwHand

[OzzyKP]

My Letter to Dan Magla----

Dan,

I am certain you have visited the Apolyton forums and noticed the incredible uproar generated by the leaked information that Multiplayer won't be released with Civ 3 in October.

The gaming community is VERY UPSET. We all are very discouraged to see this lack of concern for the player's interests and the apparent mindset of scrapping everything for your bottom line. We don't like having our interests put on hold for another 8 months and then charged AGAIN for the same product we should have gotten in October.

Many others who weren't even initially angry about the multiplayer decision/rumor are now becoming angry with the delibirate wall of silence you all have crafted around the issue. If you are going to delay it then so be it, but don't hide it from us.

Also there is the question of pre-orders, many people pre-ordered the game with the understanding that Multiplayer would be included as was advertised. Indeed still today Amazon is selling pre-orders with the bullet point mentioning Multiplayer, if you truly have no intention of putting that in, and people who bought that game thinking ther would be MP you could be held accountable by a lawsuit for false advertising.

I HIGHLY recommend you do what you have to do put MP in with the game. If you have to push the game back a month to work on it, so be it, but you are getting very bad PR from all this. You know that word of mouth sells games, and right now thousands of people on here are telling their many thousands of friends that we are being ripped off and not to buy Civ3.

Currently with the disgraceful handling of this by you and/or your publisher I have decided to NOT buy the game I have anticipated for many, many months. I sincerelly hope something happens on your end to convince me to again give you my hard earned money for your product.

-Alex Koroknay-Palicz

[SerapisIV]

I have never and probably never will play MP Civilization. It's too much of a hassle. If I want to play Civ, I want to play at my own pace whenever I want to, not when other people can play. I'm pretty sure that the majority of Civ players are solely SP players. I think that the MP players are overrepresented on the board as opposed to the actual majority of MP players proportion of all Civ players. TBS games are just an incredible pain for MP. With RTS and FPS games, you can play several games in just 3-4 hours, not just start a game which is the TBS MP pace. While I support all of you who want to boycott Civ for not having MP, I doubt it would put much of a dent in the sales.

[Fallen_Avatar]

Try PBEM...still takes forever...but only a small part of your day.

The main problem MPers here have is not Firaxis' decision...simply that they are taking the coward's approach by not telling us.

Don't worry about the boycott...I already canceled my pre-order.

I don't need another incomplete product without any word from the developers...I already own Ultima 9...bleh...
-Fallen_Avatar
(Ultima 9, CtP II...now Civ. 3?)

[SerapisIV]

Apolyton MOO3 Link

Infogrames, as the publisher and owner of the rights to MOO3 and Civ3, has sole authority as to the manner and timing of any and all publicity of said games. They are managing same in such a manner as they see fit, subject to any prior agreements with Quicksilver and Firaxis respectively, as is their right. I assume that they are doing so in order to maximize the impact (and thus the profits), and I don't begrudge them that, moreso as I don't see anything in the least inimical about their actions. It's the golden rule...he who has the gold makes the rules. Just another tough reality in the world of game/software design

Here's a quote from Stormhound a MOO3 developer who posts often to the MOO3 - Apolyton Forum. Complaining that Firaxis doesn't care is blaming the wrong group. Infogrames controls all info that goes out. Firaxis Dan has even said the same thing that Infogrames decides when info gets released. The evasive answering about MP is most likely Infogrames fault, not Firaxis'

[dennis580]

This thread should have been locked by now. I'm tired of hearing a bucnh of fanantical MP's whine.

[Fallen_Avatar]

So, you have no problem with Firaxis/Infogrames lying to the customer?

I'm guessing that if they left off something in the SP game that they promised...and did not tell you until the release, that you would be angry, and 'whining' yourself.

For example...if there was a rumor that diplomacy would be removed...and available later as a patch in four months, you'd be lighting up the message boards as much as we are.

The point is, they may remove something that was promised early on...and worse...do not have the decency to tell us.

If you can honestly tell me that you would not be posting complaints if they were going to secretly remove diplomacy from the SP game...if you can honestly say that...then yeah...you're a better guy then I.

But I'm betting if a major feature you were looking forward to were cut without a warning...that you'd be as mad as I am.
-Fallen_Avatar

[SerapisIV]

Nah. I've been following development since the start of the first Firaxis announcement and its pretty standard fare for companies to announce that they're going to attempt way more then they can actually finish for the game. It's healthy to dream big and then eventually reality kicks in and features get cut. If they're only starting MP recently, then they've been forced to put much more emphasis on AI development, which is the biggest concern of any TBS game, not even game concepts, but a bigger and better AI.

Besides, tell me when Firaxis lied? Tell me when they announced that Multiplayer has been pushed to next year? I've been very content with Firaxis' interaction with the fans. I've never heard of any requirement in the Infogrames/Firaxis contract that says that they must post every detail of development and have it approved by fans before they could actually work on the game. Firaxis is a small game company supporting a fan newtork that is huge. They could never possibly fully satisfy every fan. Deal with it

[Fallen_Avatar]

Firaxis has not said anything yet, that's the problem.

Since the opening of the official site, they have promised they are working on great new MP features. And honestly, I can wait a few months for them.

My complaint...the one thing that outrages me...is simply that nothing has been said! If there is no delay on MP...let us know that, and we'll happily wait.

If there is a delay on the MP part...don't rush it out unfinished...just have the honest decency to come clean!

I would not be upset with a delay in the MP release...I would be upset if there is a delay and Firaxis does not even have enough respect to tell us about it before the game comes out.

Either way, I wish they would just come clean and tell us the truth.
-Fallen_Avatar

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by dennis580
This thread should have been locked by now. I'm tired of hearing a bucnh of fanantical MP's whine.

Then why the heck are you here reading all of this?!

Go and bicker about how Firaxis got a date wrong on the Chinese history. Or how the you think Bronze is a more valuble commodity than copper or any other stupid foolishness you people whine about.

Censors are the same the world over, "I don't really care about or like X, no one else should either, i'll ban it." Gimmie a break.

I don't see why the hell all you SPers are flooding our threads here to attack us MPers. If you prefer computer game masturbation thats fine, i've got no beef with you, but leave us alone.

We are here to discuss a very valid point. If Firaxis or whoever their handler is wants to screw all of us over then we won't go along for the ride and Civ3 will suffer like CTP2 and any other scam hefted upon the players.

[Dimorier Maximus]

I hope that Firaxis will add on to Civ3 like it did to Civ2. Remember Civ2: Conflicts in Civilization and Civ2: Fantastic Worlds?

I am satisfied if Civ3 is first released as SP only; however, I want the first expansion pack to include MP, extra scenarios, and at least 8 more civs, like the Spanish and Incan civilizations, for example.

Firaxis is not Activision, and if enough people buy Civ3 they will make an expansion for it. Activision never made CTP2 MP because not enough people bought it in the first place.

My advice, if you like Civ2, get Civ3. The more copies of Civ3 Firaxis sells, the more likely they are to make an expansion pack for Civ3 that will, of course, include MP.